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-   -   Does God exist? (http://www.horseforum.com/general-off-topic-discussion/does-god-exist-2114/)

Dave Singleton 06-01-2007 07:21 PM

Does God exist?
 
Thought I might throw this topic in to liven things up (hopefully)! Please, no definite statements without an explanation as that is just boring.

horseoftheyear 06-02-2007 06:49 AM

i think so......... i dont believe that she/he created the world in 7 days or the adam and eve thing or noars ark or anything like that but i do believe that there is something else after this life.............

kristy 06-02-2007 04:34 PM

I didn't expect this question!

Dave Singleton 06-02-2007 06:07 PM

:wink: It's a good conversation if people want to take part though!

kristy 06-02-2007 09:35 PM

Well then Dave, what's your opinion?

Dave Singleton 06-03-2007 08:49 AM

My opinion? Well I'm a Christian for starters which does kind of tell you that I believe God exists! As for why... I have many reasons which will not exactly open this particular debate up if I give a 3 page long essay! I'm more interested in what arguments of other people are for or against God... partly because I want to see if there are any new arguments out there that challenges my beliefs or supports them further. So... Kristy?

meggymoo 06-03-2007 03:52 PM

Oh. Wow. Good topic Dave. I can quite honestly say I dont know whether there is a God or not. I'd like to believe and hope there is one, but sometimes I find it hard to believe there is. If that makes sense?!?! :oops:
There are that many horrible things that happen in this world, and with all the stories there are in the Bible, wouldnt he do something to help, or wouldn't we see miracles etc?
My Nan use to ask me to read the Bible to her when I was a child. And I use to go to Sunday school.
My Nan firmly believed there is a God, and when I saw my Nan pass away, she had such a smile and glow on her face. She even said that the angels were coming for her.......
I'd love to think that we go to a better place after this life, but as I said I honestly do not know if I believe or not.
Am really interested about what other members have to say though.

Good topic Dave. :wink:

kristy 06-03-2007 05:04 PM

Hmmmm.

Trying to answer this without writing a book is more difficult then I expected. :wink:
I'm not a Christian therefore I don't believe in any biblical stories. Instead, I believe that they are stories based on folk lore, a way to established rules and order, or significant events of the past. (IE. Noah's Ark was not Noah's Arc but rather the flooding of the what? Dead Sea? or Red Sea? I'm more tired then I thought.)
However, I'm not atheist due to the fact that I rely heavily on science as well. The theory that energy/matter cannot be created or destroyed interferes with the "creation" of the universe. How it came to be, I don't know.
I also believe we have souls. But I also think that we rely and function heavily on energy. That would be where my belief in quantum physics comes in to play - hence quanta.
I also believe things happen for a reason. I don't think things are pre-destined and we cannot change our destiny - I believe we have all control over our destiny by our choices. However, I think our choices or the way things are brought to us happen for a reason.

Dave Singleton 06-03-2007 06:20 PM

Quote:

Good topic Dave.
Thanks! :D

Quote:

I can quite honestly say I dont know whether there is a God or not. I'd like to believe and hope there is one, but sometimes I find it hard to believe there is. If that makes sense?!?!
Yup, perfectly.


Quote:

There are that many horrible things that happen in this world, and with all the stories there are in the Bible, wouldnt he do something to help, or wouldn't we see miracles etc?
My Nan use to ask me to read the Bible to her when I was a child. And I use to go to Sunday school.
My Nan firmly believed there is a God, and when I saw my Nan pass away, she had such a smile and glow on her face. She even said that the angels were coming for her.......
I'd love to think that we go to a better place after this life, but as I said I honestly do not know if I believe or not.
Am really interested about what other members have to say though.
Is it ok for me to question the first paragraph? I know some people are a bit touchy when it comes to their beliefs - I figure though from the rest of your post that you would actually like to believe fully?

If you don't ignore these paragraphs!
The problem of evil and suffering is a big problem for many people and is often a problem that many never get a satisfactory answer for - 'God has his own methods' is rarely going to win someone over who doesn't actually believe in Him for example.
The way I see it is as follows. The aim of God for us is to come to Him and accept/love Him of our own free will. Considering free will God has three choices:
1. He can allow all bad things to happen as in there is nothing lucky or good that ever happens. As far as free will goes this will invariably lead to noone even remotely considering God's benevolent existence or will choose to follow Him - 'He makes our life Hell; why on Earth should we follow Him?!'
2. He can shield us from all bad so that everything is good. This leads to the problem at the other end of the scale - if everything is so brilliant why do we need God? Remember for everything to be all good everyone must be immortal as death is a suffering experience no matter how peaceful it can for the person and that person's loved ones. Remember also that much bad in this world originates from humans - if he were to prevent humans from commiting evil acts then He would be restricting free will.
3. He can allow measures of good and bad. This allows one to make an informed decision with roughly equal measures of both. You can either look at it in the way of 'many things are so good therefore God' or 'many things are so bad therefore no God' - both good and bad in this world allows you to make this choice freely.

Dave Singleton 06-03-2007 06:43 PM

Quote:

Hmmmm.

Trying to answer this without writing a book is more difficult then I expected.
I'm not a Christian therefore I don't believe in any biblical stories. Instead, I believe that they are stories based on folk lore, a way to established rules and order, or significant events of the past. (IE. Noah's Ark was not Noah's Arc but rather the flooding of the what? Dead Sea? or Red Sea? I'm more tired then I thought.)
However, I'm not atheist due to the fact that I rely heavily on science as well. The theory that energy/matter cannot be created or destroyed interferes with the "creation" of the universe. How it came to be, I don't know.
I also believe we have souls. But I also think that we rely and function heavily on energy. That would be where my belief in quantum physics comes in to play - hence quanta.
I also believe things happen for a reason. I don't think things are pre-destined and we cannot change our destiny - I believe we have all control over our destiny by our choices. However, I think our choices or the way things are brought to us happen for a reason.
It is rather difficult, yes!
As far as the biblical stories go - I agree with you in many points as far as the Old Testament goes (I am pretty liberal) in that many contain religious and symbolic truth rather than literal truth. I think some others are simply products of historians getting a bit excited by good events and then trying to explain why s*** happens for bad events. The new testament... I believe there are probably a few points that are just a tad skewed and patched; however, I choose to follow by the example of the book (Christ) rather than the book itself - this message is love and I prefer to follow that rather than a rather homophobic St. Paul for example!

Your beliefs are very much like that of a Buddhist I think you would be surprised to hear! I would really suggest that you do some reading up as I think you could really gel with their philosophies if you wanted to...

I do have to pick you up on the part of how the Law of Conservation of energy/matter disrupts with teachings of God the creator. I explain this in the following way; this is not my own philosophy I might add but someone else's which I think is rather good!
If we look back to Genesis we find that it is actually quite possible that God did not create matter and energy himself but this too pre-existed; however he did 'form' and 'shape' the universe in such a way as could easily be considered 'creation' - just not in the same manner as one would expect. I may also point out that God did still create something (matter) out of what is effectively nothing - energy is formless, massless and chargeless; practically non-existent.
To look at Genesis:


Quote:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

As you see form the first verse it would seem obvious that God created everything. However, if you take a closer look the first verse seems more of a summary as it then goes on to actually explain the process of the 'creation'. Also if you look at the actual wording used in the 2nd verse it does actually seem oddly similar with the view of creation - nothing of substance then substance has arrived.
As a sidenote; it is possible that the universe is actually a part of God. If you look further on you will see that God need only will things to happen for it to happen - this would indicate that God has complete power of the universe which I would argue could only come from it actually being a part of God.


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