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TBsPlease 03-19-2009 08:29 PM

Legend injections?
 
Has anyone had any experience with the drug Legend? My trainer recommended it for my 13-year-old Thoroughbred gelding whom I event regularly.

He is currently on once-daily MSM. Please don't misunderstand me -- he is NOT lame. He is just sometimes stiff on the right hind, especially in his hip, but he normally works out of it when he starts lifting his back and stretching into the bit. She (my trainer) just thought it would make him more comfortable, elastic, mobile, etc.

So, does anyone have any horror stories? Miracle cases? Anything at all? As far as I'm told, Legend has virtually no long-term detrimental shortcomings, which I would like to believe, but, honestly, my luck just isn't that good, ha ha!

I am going to contact my vet to ask about obtaining a Legend prescription because my trainer knows us very well and I value her opinion more than I can possibly say, but I would still greatly appreciate any input anyone can offer! Thanks and happy riding!

CJ82Sky 03-19-2009 09:26 PM

Okay there's a few things I see here. One - your horse is relatively young, and should NOT be getting injections yet - if you start now, what will you give him when he's 15? 18? 20?

Next, if he's only stiff on one leg/hip, there's a high liklihood that he's in need of a chiropractic adjustment and/or has some muscle soreness issues, especially if he works out of it. Sounds to me like his hip could be slightly unseated which is something a chiro can help. Also, lots of trot work will build up the muscle to support the joint and decrease the stiffness you are seeing without drugs.

Finally, he's only on MSM now - so why go right from MSM (which is one of the milder forms of a joint support supp) to the total opposite end of the spectrum - injections? Seems to me like you're missing a world of support in between depending on your horse and his confo, size, workload, and history, can vary from anything like a supplement that combines MSM, chondroitin, gulcosamine, and HA, to any other number of variations out there in varying amounts.

I recommend as strongly as I can to NOT do injections unless absolutely necessary. Like people that get steroid injections into weak joints, once you do that, you need more, more frequently as you age and the joint continues to deteriorate. Try a diff supp instead - stronger, or another variation as any body - human or equine - can build up a tolerance or resistance to anything that they are on regularly and it's not always even about stonger or more, but about a different supp that will get the same (or better) results that you saw initially with MSM.

Check Equisupps.com (think smartpak, only cheaper, and it supports a rescue!) for suggestions and feel free to email for ideas/advice/consult.

Also check out that hip - not sure if you know how to palpate for chiropractic needs, but I also feel that's a strong possibility that with a new supp and a chiro adjustment and a lot of solid soft consistent trot work, you'll have an entirely different horse - no injections necessary!

JustDressageIt 03-19-2009 09:32 PM

I have to disagree with the above poster that it's a bad thing to go to... my TB gelding is almost 8 and off the track. Due to his hard lifestyle, my vet recommended I start him on Legend injections in the next couple of years. He's not the type of vet to recommend medication without due cause. Legend injections actually replenish the lubricating fluid (synovial fluids) within the joint capsule, which MSM won't do.
I would talk to your vet about it, and get his or her opinion. :)

CJ82Sky 03-19-2009 09:46 PM

Yes but HA supplements will also restore the joint fluid as well - which is why there are alternatives to the injections. If you go to injections now - what will you do when they aren't strong enough you know? That's the way I always try to look at it anyway.

TBsPlease 03-19-2009 10:39 PM

JustDressageIt and CJ82Sky --
I see both your points and I'm sort of hovering in the middleground. I've never been one to jump to injections, which is why I purposefully bought a horse who'd never been injected after I had to put poor Ty down, bless her soul. My trainer isn't overly fond of injections, either, for some of the same reasons as CJ82Sky cited -- if they need injections in their early teens or before, what does that say about their soundness in their late teens and early- to mid-twenties? She has several fat and sound but retired event horses in their thirties who have never been injected, so I don't feel like she would be even breeching the subject of Legend if she didn't think it was a good option for our particular scenario.

Like JustDressageIt's horse, he's had a pretty active, hard life. While Scout didn't race (thank God!), he was dutifully carting riders 'round for long before I bought him. I would love to ride and compete him for as long as it is possible for him to be happy and sound doing the job that he loves, ideally into his twenties, but I also want him to be as comfortable as possible right here and now.

I worry that if I start on Legend injections now, like CJ82Sky predicted, we will start down a slippery slope of becoming (a) dependent on Legend, and (b) being less sound in the long run. CJ82Sky advised the same thing my trainer did in September: lots of balanced, rhythmic trot work. It really did make worlds of difference, as did doing a lot of active walk work. Surprisingly, lunging in loose-ish side reins also helped, which makes me think even more that it's in his back/hip and that the side reins just helped to strenthen the muscles and thus lessen the guardedness off the right hind.

All this being said, when our vet comes to float teeth next week I'll bring up the subjects of both a Legend perscription and chiro adjustment and see what he thinks is the best course of action.

Thank you both so much, you've really aided me in looking at this situation from new angles. :-)

JustDressageIt 03-19-2009 10:46 PM

I'm sorry if it seemed I was being very pro-injection.. if you can supplement with something else to make your horses' joints last, then power to you. However, don't shy away from the injection if it's the thing that's gonna keep your pretty buy sound for a lot longer than just supplements alone - whether the injections need to be done tomorrow or a few years down the road.

Here is some helpful information:
Legend Injection (Canada) Veterinary Information from Drugs.com

CJ82Sky 03-19-2009 10:58 PM

agreed with all the above - and why not try a diff supp and see if there's a difference. if it doesn't work you can still go to an injection. it's just harder to go backwards!

cowgirlfitzy 03-20-2009 12:00 AM

Yea I worked at a vet clinic and we use to sell alot of this and do alot of Joint injections on 2 and 3 year old race horses! Its crazy! It seems to help but once you start you usually don't stop. I would try a GOOD equine chiropractor first. or a Vets opinion.

G and K's Mom 03-20-2009 03:14 PM

IME:
I've been through the gambit with oral supplements. I've tried Recovery EQ, Recovery EQ HA, Lakota, MSM, Corta RX, ( not the same as FX, RX must come from the vet) and plain old bute. Do chiro's 3-4 times per year, have had massage therapists.

The problem I have found, is that they work great for 12-18 months and then the horse seems to develop a resistance.

Unless the label says " Guaranteed Analysis" you really can't be sure what's in the product. None of the products above, with the exception of the Corta RX, have had clinical trials.

I've had my 17 year old QH on something for his fusing hocks since he was 13. If you consider that a large container of any of the above is about $300 and I was going through at least 3 of them a year, times 4-5 years, it's expensive. Throw in chiro treatments, x-rays (3x's) only to have him still not a 100%.

In hind sight I wish I had at least started him on I/M injections a couple of years ago. That would still leave me the option of joint injections.

Our vet has suggested injections for him for a couple of years, but I too was thinking like you are. It was going to be the last resort, if it was the only way I could him pasture sound. Why? I had it in my head that if I started them and it didn't work then what? The "then what" would become a change in his job description.

You event, that's a lot of strain on the joints. Why not inject now while he's in his usable years and worry about the pasture sound supplements when the time comes???


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