The Horse Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

A few foaling/Breeding questions.

6K views 43 replies 17 participants last post by  iridehorses 
#1 ·
Hi all,
I have purchased a Shetland cross mare, she is around 12.0 hands. She is mature (both age and other), but I need some help on selectiong a stallion. I found a Section A welsh stud, and he's beautiful, I can also afford prices, but I need to understand more about foaling itself. I have 2 pastures, one is where they are all kept, but I doubt that is suitbiblw to foal in. I have a second pasture where my goats live, its about 1/2 an acre, with a "mini" barn in it. Its like a single stall, but I doubt big enough to foal. I do not have a barn yet, but I was wondering if the goat pen would be suitible to foal in. She has never been bred, and hasn't been yet, but I was wondering if she could foal in this pasture. I know that its better in a barn, but we are in the process of building one, and in a year and a half or so, maybe two. I can post pictures of both, but I need opinions :)

Thanks!
Anny
 
#2 ·
Hi Anny

Is your mare registered? If you dont have a big enough stall for her to foal in I would be sure and breed her so that the foal comes when you are sure its warm enough to be born outside. Only bad thing with that is that is also during fly season. We generally try to breed ours to be due in April and May before the flies get bad. That is my Shetland stallion in my avatar :) Nice to meet you!

Kay
 
#3 ·
Hi all,
I have purchased a Shetland cross mare, she is around 12.0 hands. She is mature (both age and other), but I need some help on selectiong a stallion. I found a Section A welsh stud, and he's beautiful, I can also afford prices, but I need to understand more about foaling itself.
Anny, why do you want to breed your mare? I'm a firm believer in needing a good reason to breed. I am assuming that your cross is a grade mare. Why are do you want a grade foal? It's almost certainly going to be more expensive to breed your mare than it would be to purchase a foal of at least the same quality. What's your mare's conformation? The stallion's?

I'd be certain to know a whole more about breeding before I considered doing it. What will you do if your mare dies during/after having her foal? What will you do with the foal? It's quite difficult to sell foals at this time. Can you afford another horse?

Anyway, I think you need to really evaluate this situation carefully before breeding your mare.

 
#5 ·
Anny, why do you want to breed your mare? I'm a firm believer in needing a good reason to breed. I am assuming that your cross is a grade mare. Why are do you want a grade foal? It's almost certainly going to be more expensive to breed your mare than it would be to purchase a foal of at least the same quality. What's your mare's conformation? The stallion's?

I'd be certain to know a whole more about breeding before I considered doing it. What will you do if your mare dies during/after having her foal? What will you do with the foal? It's quite difficult to sell foals at this time. Can you afford another horse?

Anyway, I think you need to really evaluate this situation carefully before breeding your mare.
I want to breed for the joy of breeding. I want to try and train from start. I want the foal to not have any problems in the foals genetics and so. My mom and I want to have a foal so we can finally say we trained a foal from scratch. I want some quality incase we foal a colt, I wouldn't casterate him. I would stud hi out, either unless someone inquired (lol im getting into the FAR future lol) - the mare was bought from the auctions, more of a rescue than a buy. She seems like a pony that would make a great mother. I'll get more info on the stallion and Savannah when I get my documents back at my house.

Kay, no she is not registered, and your stallion is beautiful :) thanks for the welcome.


carriedennae, thats Phillip, my cutie gelding :), i don't have good pictures of Savnnah, but Thursday I will, and I will post pictures of both.
 
#4 ·
none of our mares foal in a barn... we keep them in a small paddock
all of ours are bred to foal in april and may as well..just seems better ;)
not too warm and not too cold!!

If that is your mare in your avatar she is a pretty little thing!!!
 
#9 · (Edited)
Please read this blog:

fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com

it might help you understand where we're coming from.

In this economy, grade foals like the one you're thinking of producing are selling for $25 at auction.

Some food for thought:
What will make your foal stand a better chance of finding a good home than the next one? Nobody can ever say that they will always be able to keep their horse(s) - just like anyone, you can fall on hard times, and let's face it, horses are a luxury.

Things that will make a foal more marketable, in case one ever EVER has to sell their horse:
- registration. A LOT of people care about papers, even if you don't... it could mean a deal maker or breaker. There are a lot of good grade horses going to slaughter every day just because someone picked a registered horse over them. If you have 2 horses that are identical in every way BUT one is registered, and one isn't, chances are the registered one will get chosen first.
- conformation... is the mare conformationally sound? Does she have any glaring faults?
- training. Will you absolutely be able to provide training? If YOU can't train it yourselves, do you have the funds to send it to a trainer?

I have nothing against breeding rescue mares as long as they are registered, have very good conformation, and have good minds ..... you are lacking one out of 3 so far.

I am not trying to be snarky.. but there is an overload of unwanted horses out there - what will make your baby so special that will prevent it from possible becoming one, if you ever have to sell it?

My guidelines for breeding:
Both horses:
- Have a decent pedigree
- Are registered (remember... even if you don't care about papers, a lot of other people do)
- Have great conformation (no "fatal" faults, such as back at the knee etc)
- Are sound to breed
- Have no genetic defects (HyPP, HERDA, OWLS, etc...)
- Are sound of mind
- Are excelling in their discipline (whether it be competitive or not)
- Both mare and stallion compliment one another (e.g if the mare has a longer back, choose a stallion with a shorter back)

Please please please rethink your decision to breed... go to auction and see what's selling for less than $100... you'll be shocked. While you are there, think, "IF I produce a foal, why will it be better than the foals being sold for less than meat money here?" A LOT of registered foals with good pedigrees are going for less than meat price.

What has your mare accomplished?
 
#10 ·
Just to add... are you prepared for the costs and risks of breeding??
Stud fee: $1000+ for a decent stud (there are exceptions, but you will probably have to hunt)
Vet care: Ultrasounds, preg check, vaccinations, deworming, etc.

There are many things that can go wrong with a pregnancy. Are you willing to risk your mare's health as well?
 
#11 ·
Another post... you said that you were "getting far into the future" with your thought patterns, but that is what you NEED to do!!

What do you want to do with this foal? What disciplines are you going to market it towards? If you get a colt, why are you not going to castrate?

There are too many "on a whim" foals out there - owners that just thought "oh, I'll breed my mare just this once, I'll love it and care for it forever!!" The foal is born, its cute, but then it grows up. It gets into its 3rd year and it's a total brat because, well, that's the "teenage" stage ... the owners decide that maybe they don't want Cutie anymore and sell it.

Lots of people "just want one foal out of their special mare" ... lots of people "will keep it forever and ever and ever" ... if that was the case, why do you see conformationally incorrect, unregistered horses going through auction? Chances are that was someone's "forever foal" at one point.

Think about it... if 50 people decide they want a "forever foal" and breed their low quality, grade mare, 50 foals are born.
Now, I'll low-ball and say half of these people fall on hard times, or simply decide they don't want Fluffy anymore.. that's 25 foals/yearlings/whatever that are on the market that won't stand a good chance of going to a good home.
 
#16 ·
Another post... you said that you were "getting far into the future" with your thought patterns, but that is what you NEED to do!!

What do you want to do with this foal? What disciplines are you going to market it towards? If you get a colt, why are you not going to castrate?

There are too many "on a whim" foals out there - owners that just thought "oh, I'll breed my mare just this once, I'll love it and care for it forever!!" The foal is born, its cute, but then it grows up. It gets into its 3rd year and it's a total brat because, well, that's the "teenage" stage ... the owners decide that maybe they don't want Cutie anymore and sell it.

Lots of people "just want one foal out of their special mare" ... lots of people "will keep it forever and ever and ever" ... if that was the case, why do you see conformationally incorrect, unregistered horses going through auction? Chances are that was someone's "forever foal" at one point.

Think about it... if 50 people decide they want a "forever foal" and breed their low quality, grade mare, 50 foals are born.
Now, I'll low-ball and say half of these people fall on hard times, or simply decide they don't want Fluffy anymore.. that's 25 foals/yearlings/whatever that are on the market that won't stand a good chance of going to a good home.
One other thing, yes I've seen that before. I don't let foals/adults "get away" with anything, because I've SEEN "Bratty little teenagers" before, as 15 yr-old adults, and theyre terrible to ride/handle, and castration would be an option if its our best bet.
 
#12 ·
I understand that you all are trying to help her make a good decision and I agree with everything posted but lets try and help her in a more positive way. :)

I will say that breeding horses can be the most heartbreaking thing you will ever take on. Please know that things can and do go wrong. You have to really educate yourself on how to take care of the mare and what to do if something goes wrong with the foaling. We just recently had to pull a foal a couple weeks ago. I have a video of it so maybe I will try to post it. Not to scare you but to show you how quickly things can go wrong. Most times you do not have time to wait for a vet to get there and must be able to reposition the foal yourself.

Take your time and really think this through because the decisions you make now will affect a horse that is going to be born for 25-30 years.
 
#14 ·
Wow - what very sad news to hear so many horses going through the sales.

To answer your questions re: foaling down.
I guess it all comes down to the climate at time of foaling.
Here in Australia, I personally dont know one person who foals there mares down inside, but I live in a very hot coastal area. Though during winter the water troughs ice over if they are not moved to a more sheltered area.
When our mare foaled down last year, she did so outside, I made sure I had lights set up, it almost looked like a U.F.O. landed in my place.

As for RE: economically & the quality of the horses you select to breed, well thats for you to decide. Hopefully you can take an objective view to decide which is best to breed and those that are not.
There are alot of horses here, that I honestly believe shouldnt be bred from (Mare or Stallion), but people do. There are also alot of registered part welsh ponies who are just absolutely stunning and come from unregistered mares.
But ultimately its your decision. Best of luck.
 
#15 ·
Thanks, everyone, you've educated me more... but when did I ever say anything about selling foals? My plan was to KEEP a foal, and a stud fee (if a colt) would just be a suggestion. I'm not suggesting that I would CHARGE and OFFER him (again, if born a colt) up for stud, but if its not recommended, I wouldn't. Here is the stallion;
Welsh Pony Horse For Stud, Virginia, Warrenton

I need better photo's of Savannah, I'm taking off tomorrow, so I'll have time. I know and understand the risks of foaling, I've heard and seen complications before. My mother and myself have ALWAYS wanted to foal, perhaps I could try breeding something simpler, before breeding horses. Rabbits, or Goats (which we planned on), Thank You for future-foal concerns.
 
#19 ·
Thanks, everyone, you've educated me more... but when did I ever say anything about selling foals? My plan was to KEEP a foal, and a stud fee (if a colt) would just be a suggestion. I'm not suggesting that I would CHARGE and OFFER him (again, if born a colt) up for stud, but if its not recommended, I wouldn't. Here is the stallion;
Welsh Pony Horse For Stud, Virginia, Warrenton

I need better photo's of Savannah, I'm taking off tomorrow, so I'll have time. I know and understand the risks of foaling, I've heard and seen complications before. My mother and myself have ALWAYS wanted to foal, perhaps I could try breeding something simpler, before breeding horses. Rabbits, or Goats (which we planned on), Thank You for future-foal concerns.
Two things here...first breeding from a grade mare with unknown pedigree and producing a grade offspring of either sex is irresponsible in this market even if you are going to keep the foal.

Second at the very least you should be breeding to a purebred stallion for the genetics involved in this cross is 3/4 welsh and 1/4 unknown (stallion)to your shetland cross mare (again unknown) and since she is a rescue, this is only a guess at the real breeding. This would make the foal less than 1/2 of something verifiable and more than 1/2 of some unknown mixture of breeds that may not have the genetic mix to blend well.

Bad breeding choices.
 
#17 ·
What I was trying to say about selling the foal is WHAT IF you get into a situation that forces you to sell your horses? It CAN happen.
If you breed a foal that is not conformationally correct or is not papered, or has no training, heaven forbid all of those things, how is it going to find a good home?

The trick is to breed GOOD stock to GOOD stock. That way you're giving the foal the best possible chance of survival IF for some reason down the road you can't care for it anymore.

Your mare was a rescue, you said - what's going to prevent her foal from potentially ending up in the same situation if you have to sell?

I am not trying to be mean. A lot of people breed on a whim. A lot of people breed just to make one baby out of a mare they love because they want to raise a foal themselves - problem is, not many of those people end up keeping those "special" foals; and they're ONLY "special" to the original owner.

Why not go and buy a starving weanling that is otherwise going to end up nowhere good? Why not save a life rather than create another?
 
#20 ·
You say your mare is 'mature' and hasn't had a foal before--that in itself could lead to a very complicated pregnancy that will likely end up in you loosing the mare, foal or both.

If you take a look at the sales pages across the internet at crossbred unpapered ponies you'll see that your best bet is to go to an auction and pick up a little foal of your own to avoid that possible disastrous outcome.

The stallion you have selected is only a 1/2 bred as well so there is already an unknown component.


The market of unknown ponies is sketchy as best and it would be very irresponsible to attempt to contribute to those demographics. Like I said, go to an auction, or a breeder and pick out your pony foal (registered or not)
 
#21 ·
Its your horse and your business to breed it or not no one elses. Can something go wrong? Of course it can but the odds are very low and no worse then any other horse reg. or grade. And the odds of it getting a bad home are no different then a reg. horse fact is the horses I've rescued have all been reg. I can't think of a grade one yet. Doesn't mean there are none just means people that neglect animals don't care if their reg. or not. Same with slaughter horses when we haul loads to Can. theres way more reg ones then grades.
 
#22 ·
BTW the odds of any given horse going to slaughter are very remote less then 1% of the horses in the U.S. are slaughtered each year. What makes them a better chance is if their broke to ride or not. A grade horse thats broke to ride has a great chance of not being slaughtered. The best bred one thats not rideable will go to slaughter much more often. Kill buyers are in business to make money and can resell riders grade or not.
 
#23 ·
Im not so sure County

I am founder and current VP of Chances Mini Horse Rescue http://www.chancesminihorserescue.org

Over the years we get both registered and grade minis/ponies. I can say the first to adopt out are the ones with papers. Many people prefer that so their kids can show the mini in local shows etc. (we geld all stallions before they are adopted out)

I also agree that training makes a huge difference on where a horse will end up.

I just think the original poster hasnt really thought this through and maybe now she will.

Cant say if that is a good match for your mare as we havent seen the mare. Remember you want a stallion to pair up with her that will reinforce her strenghts and not double up on faults.

I have had many people ask me to breed their unregistered mares to our stallions and I always have to explain to them why we do not do that. On the flip side I wont let my stallions breed a registered mare if I dont think shes a good match for my stallion.

We are always trying to look ahead at least 5 years and we do show almost all of our horses so that they prove themselves in the show ring first before they are bred.
 
#24 ·
Ok, I've been scared into not breeding. I have ALWAYS understood the complications, and I highly doubt I will EVER have to sell my horses. Most horses I know are not registered, and they are lesson horses, the make great pets. I always have friends who would buy/lease if it ever comes to that. I KNOW and UNDERSTAND breeding takes time, and work, and you need the foals outcome to be great, but seeing as TRUTHFULLY, its yup to my mom, not me. SHE said we are going to have at least one foal, and wants one within the next two years. Whenever I come to her with imformation, she pushes me away. So if I try to explain to her that breeding Savannah is not a good idea, she will just find a stud (registered or not) pay lowest price possible, and then make sure the mare is treated properly throughout the pregnancy and after. I KNOW I can buy a starving foal (why do you think I refuse to have children, I want to adopt, I understand, save the dying before create, same work as breeding horses) - but if the foal was abused, how will it turn out later in life, I mean, for example, Phillip was abused until he was two-years-old, the poor boy is afraid of sticks and the wind. He'll spook if the mounting block gets moved, and he'll freak out when Savannah leaves him. I want a sure-fire horse (or foal rather) that I know what I would be getting into. Trust me, I would LOVE to adpot a foal, but its different. Another example, I work at a rescue for dogs, I've seen them come straight out of puppymills, abused, skinny and ill, but I've bred my dog twice. Fist was mixed, second was papered puppies. They both sold quickly, pure or not. But two years later, I adpoted two more dogs, for an over-crowded rescue-farm. I HATE being preasured into not doing something, but I think you all did the trick.

Thanks for your time, and comments, I get it.

Anny <3
 
#25 ·
...Most horses I know are not registered, and they are lesson horses, the make great pets. I.... she will just find a stud (registered or not) pay lowest price possible, and then make sure the mare is treated properly throughout the pregnancy and after. I KNOW I can buy a starving foal ..... but if the foal was abused, how will it turn out later in life, I mean, for example, Phillip was abused until he was two-years-old, the poor boy is afraid of sticks and the wind.
The thing is that we cannot always predict what will happen with our financial future. If we're going to create a life we should do our best to create a desirable and marketable life.

You can purchase a good quality, well cared for, foal for less than $500. I don't know why you think cheap foals are abused ones. And, you know, horses tend to be afraid of unknown things. They're prey animals. This is the reason we work with ours to reduce those fears. We play games with things like swim noodles to create a safe, non-fearful horse.

Conformation is important in a breeding horse. It's important IF you'd like to have your horse stay sound. Conformation is not something you should ever say you're not interested in unless you don't intend to ride and don't care how long a life your horse will live IMO.
 
#31 ·
Actually breeding a mare and raising a foal is something each person should decide for themselves. It doesn't take a lot of money unless you want it to. And it doesn't take a great deal of knowledge actually its very basic. In short its really no one elses business if someone wants to breed their mare.
 
#33 ·
OK, we all have free will. That doesn't mean we need to use that to do something not so smart. OK, maybe it doesn't take a lot of knowledge or a lot of money to have a foal. But it does take money and knowledge to do it well. By doing it well, I mean having good quality stock (superb conformation, registered stock, etc.) and taking good care of your mare and your foal. Of course, we could all just be back yard breeders and contribute to the current excess horse situation.
 
#36 ·
I never said my horses were spectacular although I'll stack them up against pretty much anything I've seen on here. And I'll stack the care I give mine up against those on here. People can whine, cry, complain about others not doing what they do all they want. Its meaningless. You don't want to breed your horse by all means don't.
 
#37 ·
Okay I have read all the posts and feel the need to put my 2 cents in here, and please no one bash me as it will not only be a waste of my time to read it, but a waste of your time to type it.. At first this thread started out pretty good, all this young lady wanted was some advice on breeding her mare, which started out as a decent conversation, now it has turned into the big huge argument about breeding.....

I understand that we all in the equine industry view breeding highly different, and ones expertise should be answered to someones quetions, and I dont think they should be answered in a negative way.. I think if you are going to put a negative view on breeding ie:eek:ver population, not breeding at all, buying youngsters, back yard breeding or whatever have you then post a new thread debating the topic there not where someone is asking for advice, as you will notice I have done the same thing...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top