Ok. So I didn't get my butt in gear soon enough to show this year, so we're going to shoot for next year. I really want to show western pleasure at first, then move on to English and eventually cross country.
The problem is, Aires is four this year and will be five when next show season rolls around, so we won't be able to show in a snaffle anymore. I'm going to spend a few months getting all his cues and steering down, but then I'll need to move up.
So, what are suggestions for a transition bit and what we should end up in? Posted via Mobile Device
Surely for any type of English riding, you can use a snaffle to your heart's content. My horse has been in one her whole life. As the horse should be working on a contact, you would not want to use a curb.
A Western person will obviously have to explain how they transition the youngster from a snaffle to a curb. I haven't a clue, but I know those horses do not work on a direct contact and will be neck-reined.
Oh, I know that in English we'll be using a full cheek French link snaffle, thesilverspear. Right now, he only direct reins, but in an effort to make him as well-rounded as possible, I want to work him western, too, so I'll be teaching him to neck rein. Posted via Mobile Device
In my opinion, you should really have a solid couple of months of neck reining down pat before you transition to a curb bit. The mechanics of a curb bit do not lend itself well to a lot of direct reining. Once the horse can neck rein well, I would suggest a medium shanked bit with a broken mouth piece and hinged shanks. This will give you a little bit of direct reining ability if needed to correct the horse.
I get how to progress through to a curb. Seriously, this ain't my first rodeo. Loll. Well, technically it's my first time training a horse from the ground up through saddle, but I know how to do it.
Can you post a link to the type of bit that you're talking about? I'm a very visual person. Posted via Mobile Device
Once my colts were neckreining pretty well, I typically went to a bit like this, with short, curved shanks and a broken mouthpiece. I always started without the curb strap for a few rides while they adjust to some poll pressure and the different feel of a direct rein, then add in the additional jaw pressure of the curb strap.
This particular bit looks like it has the potential to pinch at the shank swivel, but I can't find pics of MY actual bit which I've had since the 90's. We always referred to it as a tear drop shank snaffle.
My favorite transition bit is a straight mouthed or mullen mouthed Pelham. You have the option to ride 2 reins or 4 reins and you can switch easily without changing bridles mid-schooling session. I prefer one with a chain curb chain. IF you use one, make sure to twist the chain clockwise until it links smooth, and then you adjust so that you can fit 2 fingers in between his head behind his chin and the curb chain.
Thanks! That makes sense as a transition bit. I also like the dog bone mouthpiece, as he prefers a three piece snaffle. I'm sure I can find something like that at one of my local tack stores, too.
Corporal, are you suggesting a Pelham to transition into a western curb? Posted via Mobile Device
Here are two that seem to get a good response from my mare:
Jr Cowhorse:
Shank ratio is about 1.25 to 1, so not a big change from a snaffle. Mia likes to play with the copper roller.
I believe this is a version of a Billy Allen:
It has a 1.75 to 1 ratio, but the design makes direct reining easy to do, yet it also has the firmness side to side to give good neck reining cues. At least, I think Mia neck reins better in it that in a snaffle. Both allow the sides to swivel out, which is a cue Mia has always listened to well. I haven't seen any indication that either pinches her lips.
If I could only own one, I'd probably go with the bottom design. It seems to get a cleaner response out of my horse, if that makes any sense.
That makes sense, bsms. I think I might go with either the Jr Cowhorse or the bit Cynical posted to start out with, then progress up to something like the second on you posted once he gets comfortable with neck reining. Posted via Mobile Device
You know.. probably everyone will disagree.. but I never worried about it. I got my horse working and then I have this curb bit with fixed shanks.. it is shaped like the horse's mouth with a straight bar at the bars of the mouth and the center part curves upward in the shape of the horse's tongue between the bars. The curb strap attaches to its own slots about the bit and the shank above the bit has another loop for the cheek piece.
The bit COULD be severe depending on the adjustment of the cub strap or chain and the harshness of the hands. I started the horse with the curb strap fairly loose.
Then I just rode the horse. By the time I was doing this I had taught the horse to move on an indirect rein and had gradually turned that into a nice neck rein.
As a couple of weeks went along I just shortened the curb straps to the tightness I felt optimal. At some point I barely touched the bit (a little bump once in awhile if I needed it).. but just the very lightest of contact.
And that was it.. we were working in that bit.
I have not had a horse in a long time but I have that bit. Never had a horse object to it and it fit a LOT of horses. Of course I had nice heavy oiled latigo reins and a very light hand.
I have never seen another bit like it and I don't even recall where I got it. This is similar but mine has a stainless mouth piece.
Goll darnit! I'll try this again for the 4th time :evil:. I keep losing my post.
Drafty, what size bit is Aires wearing now? Only reason I ask is because, if he’s like Rafe, then he’s wearing at least a 6”. I’ve scoured every site I could find on the internet looking for a bit that I like in the size that he’s going to need to fit his big honking head LOL. I’ve not had any luck with commercially available bits. I’ve basically resigned myself to the fact that he’s going to need a custom bit.
I spoke with these folks about 3 years ago and they quoted me a price of $75 for a bit very similar to this. The only difference is that they don’t work with sweet iron, only stainless steel. So, the mouth would be stainless inlaid with copper…which I wasn’t too keen on, I’m really wanting sweet iron. They mainly cater to the Walker crowd so most of their “standard” bits are pretty gruesome looking, but the quality appears to be good. Horse Bits, Walking Horse Bits, Custom Horse Bits, Grissom Bits, Tail Brace, Tennessee, Shobitz
I’ve also spoken with these folks and he quoted me a price of $175 to get exactly what I want, which is a sweet iron mouth like this with copper inlays and stainless steel shanks like this. Of course, it would cost more if I wanted any decoration, but I’m more utilitarian LOL. Vernon Lynes - Silversmith - Lynes Custom Cowboy Company
I’ve also spoken with these folks and he quoted me a price of $175 to get exactly what I want, which is a sweet iron mouth like this with copper inlays and stainless steel shanks like this. Of course, it would cost more if I wanted any decoration, but I’m more utilitarian LOL. Vernon Lynes - Silversmith - Lynes Custom Cowboy Company
Drafty, nothing wrong with having a bit collection! I've pruned down to my favorite 6 over the years, but I may *need* to buy one like smrobs posted...
I need to measure him again. I know that he outgrew our 5.25" eggbutt French link snaffle, but we've been using a Little S hack for a while (he likes it better). Aires is shaped weird. His head is ridiculously long (draft-size halter and bridle in length), but not very thick/wide. I highly doubt he's much wider than a 5.5" right now. Posted via Mobile Device
Yes, I am suggesting a Pelham to transition into a western curb. Somehow I'm thinking you might already have one or know someone who could lend you one. You can go cheap--~$20.00--AND, it makes a nice hacking bit, too.
bsms I really like the bit you pictured.
Elana, the bit in your picture is almost identical to the three (same)bits I bought many years ago for trail riding. ALL of my horses like this bit, but DA, you should be aware that the long shank gives you a lot more leverage, along with the "s" shape. I have used both a leather curb "chain" and an actual chain with them.
I don't have a Pelham and I don't know anyone with one (let alone in the size I need). I would have to order one, which isn't a huge deal. My only concern is that he detests single-jointed bits, which a Pelham is (unless they make them in a double jointed version). Posted via Mobile Device
I think Aires would like the second one (the polo Pelham) better than the straight mouth. He seems to much prefer having some tongue relief, which the port on the polo Pelham would provide him.
So, I've got several transition bits I can choose between. Heck, I might get all three and see which one we like best. Posted via Mobile Device
My problem with the western bits, as I'm sure smrobs understands completely, is finding them in the right size. It seems like all the ones I can find are 5". For instance, I really like the bit you posted, Cynical, but I can only find it in a 5"...and I need it in a 5.5", at least. Posted via Mobile Device
Yep, totally unfair that they've got all those draft sized English bits, but the only western options we have are either the typical solid curb (which there is nothing really wrong with except they are very limiting as far as feel goes)
Right?! I found a bit on horse.com that I love the look of (Bob Avila medium port Rio bit) and of course it only comes in a 5" mouthpiece. Grrrr! Argh!! Posted via Mobile Device
True Pelham bits should NOT be JOINTED. Add the joint and the become tom Thumb or some other thing.. not a true pelham (and I do not care WHAT the bit sellers have them listed as!).
They come in mullen and curb mouths and the mouths are often rubber covered. My pelham was a smooth mullen mouth with eggbutt ends. Sometimes the lips can be pinched if you don't use an egg butt.
ALWAYS lay the curb chain FLAT and realize that the tighter the chain the more severe your hands can be. LIGHT HANDS are essential. But they should be anyway.
You can use a converter and a single rein or learn to ride with two reins. I learned with two because I was transitioning some horses to a full bridle at some point.
Elana, you don't see Pelhams much in my area, so I was going off pictures online. Google "Pelham bit" and 90% of what pop up are jointed. That's why I thought Pelhams were jointed. After Cynical pointed out that they are not supposed to be jointed, I settled on a polo Pelham (with a mildly ported mouthpiece). Posted via Mobile Device
I did Google it and was surprised at the amount of misinformation (I grabbed the photos off Google Search).
Tho I should not be surprised. Ignorance/misinformation and training horses (or dogs) often seem to go hand in hand and have for as long as man has partnered with these animals.
If you are going to a curb.....use a low port, DO NOT use a jointed mouth. The combination of a jointed mouth, long shanks, and a curb chain were NOT meant to go together.
Oh, and I ride two-handed in a curb bit when I school often times.....you certainly can direct rein in a curb.
Riding with 4 reins isn't difficult. Make sure that both sets of reins are the same length. I like to use a set of braided reins for the snaffle rings and flat reins for the curb rings. You run the snaffle reins on the outside of your pinkies and you cross and run the curb reins between your ring and pinky fingers JUST LIKE DIRECT REINING WITH A SNAFFLE.
What I was suggesting is that you can use the Pelham to drop one set at a time, or use equal pressure on the snaffle and curb--much like a "full bridle" which uses two BITS--and teach your horse to halt and half halt feeling the bit on the bars AND the fulcrum effect of the curb.
You horse can get a chance to respond to one or the other or both at the same time, and you don't have to dismount to change bridles during the same schooling session. Later on, when your horse is finished you can get a converter, which is piece of leather for both sides of the bit than converts it from 4 reins back to 2 reins, like NORMAL.
As Elana said, TWIST THE CURB CHAIN CLOCKWISE until it makes the links smooth, then adjust so that you can fit two of your fingers in between the horse and the curb chain for a correct adjustment. IF you use a leather piece instead of a metal curb chain, you adjust the same way.
And sorry, I just realized that you are the one who suggested the Pelham, not Cynical. Stoopid brain. Lol Posted via Mobile Device
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