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HorsesAreForever 04-19-2009 08:04 PM

HERD BOUND! help please!!
Herd bound problem! Im into PNH but ... for this.. im having my doubts ..

Chance will stop at the gate if I dont let her she will pull and put up a fight! I cant even trot her now without her trying to gallop to the door! I use to be able to WTC and jump! Parelli wants me to just sit and wait for HER to want to move ... the problem is when she decides okay time to go... and i encourage it, shes like NO never mind I dont want to because you want me to do it... and gets so annoyed about it. Shes useing the door as an excuse! Today I decided screw parelli right now and trying to get my way and she threw a buck and a mini rear! GAH!

Yes I passed Level 1 yay great but.. I cant pass 2 unless I can ride!! And there advice doesnt seem to be helping! I want to stick to parelli.. but I need some serious results riding wise and not have to take a year just walking when I want to show hunters.... We have awesome ground work/ manners its just under saddle we fall apart

PLEASE help! thanks. I gotta say at least im open to other ideas :D

onetoomany 04-19-2009 08:15 PM

I would suggest making it uncomfortable for her to be at the gate. Jounce around in the saddle, yell, jiggle your reins (with no contact). I'm guessing she drops her shoulder into the gate and you don't just let her go to the gate? If she's dropping a shoulder pick that shoulder up and kick her back to where you want her to be. Another suggestion is to MAKE her work near the gate and let her have chill time on the opposite side of the arena. That's a couple of things that have worked for me, my mare used to try to pull that BS but she got a good wap once with my leg and that was the last time. Sorry to the Parelli in your but with an issue like this, letting them make up their own mind is probably not going to work.

HorsesAreForever 04-19-2009 08:32 PM

Makeing it uncomfortable or working near the gate might just work.. like doing 20 or 10 meter circles by the gate like at a trot.

I honestly dont think the parelli advice was a good idea cause shes one of those horses who are just gonna keep it up till they think its a good time to stop.

Spirithorse 04-19-2009 08:47 PM

Well, I am into Parelli, as you know, so I'll give you some ideas to work with that ARE Parelli.

If a horse is gate sour, usually that means she is unconfident. She doesn't feel safe and in her mind, safety is with her herd, so she will try to get back to them. So in order to fix this it first starts with your ground perperation. Do not get on until she is mentally, emotionally and physically relaxed. Just follow the won't lead you wrong. When you ride take notice of WHEN she gets gate sour. Is it when you ask her in a certain gait? Does she start the behavior as soon as you get on? Is she tense? etc. When you feel that FIRST sign of gate sourness bend her softly with one rein and ask her to stop and relax. Don't release until she gives, just like in Level 1. You could also stop and back her up a couple steps, but softly. If she is indeed unconfident getting after her will NOT fix anything. Have you tried the mirroring exercise? I saw Linda Parelli instruct a student with a gate sour horse at a tour stop and she had the rider walk the horse around on a loose rein and mirror his horse...when she looked left, he looked left....when she turned, he turned.....when she went to the gate and stopped he stopped with her. He waited until she relaxed and then asked her to go again, but he did NOT tell her where to go...he just said "Lets go somewhere." Pretty soon the horse wasn't even interested in the gate. That's because the rider showed her that there was nothing to be scared of....she could trust him and he understood her unconfidence. This is how the rider showed his horse leadership. The reason the mirroring works is because for unconfident horses, when we aren't in sync with them it adds to their tension...the lack of harmony is bothersom. So when we get so in sync with them, even in our head movements, the horse feels that harmony and the lack of disharmony calms them down.

Now, on the other end of the scale, you have the horse who is not unconfident and is being very left brained and is arguing with you. But you still have to ask yourself "Why is she arguing with me?" It's usually because the horse is bored, the rider forgets the horse's motivational needs, or the rider gets direct lined and focuses on their goals and not the horse's needs. And when the horse protests and the rider gets forceful, the horse protests harder, which is what you experienced when you said "Screw Parelli." Now whether that blow up was from unconfidence or just dominance, idk, I wasn't there, that's what you have to figure out. So in this kind of case, the worst thing you could do is fight her. She will just fight back. Hard. And it will ruin your relationship. So again, it all starts from the ground. Make sure your play session is VERY interesting and provocative. When you get on make sure you are in the right frame of mind, which means that you are not putting your goals before her needs. Now it's your job to make things FUN! Keep things interesting and don't dwell on any exercise....once she has the idea MOVE ON. She might just be saying "This is boring! God why are we doing this again?!" Do you have the Parelli Patterns? If not I would get them. They are awesome! If you can't get them, just set up some puzzles for her to figure out....figure 8's, a weave pattern, can also work on getting your yields (hind end, front end, back up, sideways) closer and closer to true Freestyle, which is bridleless. Follow the Level 2 riding tasks.

Really, gate sour issues can be prevented with proper preperation. It's really an issue of the relationship....whether it's a lack of trust or a lack of respect, but either way it's OUR fault when gate sour issues pop up. My first Levels horse had a bad gate sour issue for a time, but once I got more into the Program and knew what to do, the issue went away because I was more informed for the needs of my horse. Once I got MYSELF in check, the issue went away. How interesting :)

HorsesAreForever 04-19-2009 09:05 PM

We are PERFECT on ground theres no fights and I am doing a lot of driving from zone 3 which is where I would be in saddle.

I really think its because she gets rest from that spot... because she does the same with the pedastool she will fight to get on it.... and she will do the same if i stop to talk to someone she will try and get to that person!

So I want to make that spot more work and the middle rest or random places in the arena that way im not really fighting her im just making it comfortable

Ahsisi 04-19-2009 09:07 PM

SHe is definitely talking back to you! =) When she does that and you put your leg on her to go, if she refuses to and gets sassy, I would turn her in a small circle away from the gate (like if the gate is on your left, turn right) and do that for a minute, fairly softly the first time. Then stop and ask her to go again, if she does it again, repeat but get after her a little bit (give her a few little kicks with that outside leg), try again. Repeat until she gives in. And you can try, after turning her in the small circle, instead of stopping her and then asking her to go again (for the first few times) just try to walk out of the circle. Then once that works, maybe the next you ride bring her back to a stop and then ask her to go from a halt instead of the walk.

Ahsisi 04-19-2009 09:11 PM

Another your ring big enough to work up the middle? Turn sooner so you don't have to go right by the gate...once that works, expand your working area to incorporate the space right by the ring. Just trying to give you some ideas to get her working. This might help her get the idea to keep going instead of always using the same track in the ring since it may have just become a habit for her now.

Spirithorse 04-19-2009 09:23 PM

Make the center of the arena the sweet spot. Ask her to do something and rest in the center of the arena.

Is there anyway you could post a video of her behavior?

I'll just warn you, if you try to force her and if you get rough with her, things will get ugly. You need to get SMARTER, not STRONGER with her.

HorsesAreForever 04-19-2009 09:43 PM

im not gonna get rough with her or try not to.. But i am gonna make that a uncomfortable spot like do a lot of forward backwards disengageing there then go away from that then just rest. Then go do like weave, fig. 8 or something and if she wants to go to teh gate ill gladly go there but do like circles ect. then go away rest.

cowgirlfitzy 04-20-2009 10:53 PM

Yea if you are safe to leave the arena take her out of the arena and put her to work then bring her back in and let her rest.

Here are some other things I almost always do to prevent this behavior as well:

Get off at the other end of the arena. Yes that means you have to walk lol!

Back them through the gate. Don't know why this works but it makes the gate less appealing to them.

Leave them tied for a while after the session. (teaches them patience and not to rush back home/barn or whatever) You can do this in a stall or hitching post or whatever you have.

Good Luck ;)

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