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-   -   Does your area separate divisions properly? (http://www.horseforum.com/eventing/does-your-area-separate-divisions-properly-270034/)

MyBoyPuck 09-03-2013 08:15 PM

Does your area separate divisions properly?
 
So I finally got to the point in my riding where I was able to enter a few recognized events. In both shows, the BN division entries filled up with 60 riders. Both shows separated them out into 4 BN divisions. I figured, since you have to fill out all that stuff on your entry about rider experience, horse experience and preferred category, "rider, horse, open, amateur" that they would put everyone in appropriate divisions. Instead, with both shows, they just lumped everyone one in with no logic whatsoever. In my first ever recognized shows, I had to compete against professional riders. My friends, who has done many more than me, had little kids in hers. The scores were all over the place and naturally the pro's came away with all the ribbons. I would like to think, with all the money and training that goes into entering these shows, they would take to time to assure a level playing field, but I guess that's not how these things work. I could see lumping everyone together if there were not enough entries, but this was not the case in either show. Do they do it this way in other areas, or do they weed everyone out properly?

JustWingIt 09-03-2013 08:50 PM

Ok this thread popped up on perfect timing because I really need someone to clarify how this works, I am new to eventing and am entering my first recognized event soon, what is "rider, horse, open, amateur" which would I be?

Sorry to derail, but it is relevant :)
Posted via Mobile Device

MyBoyPuck 09-03-2013 08:53 PM

My understanding is:

Rider = rider is more experienced at the level than horse

Horse = horse is more experienced. All been there done that school horses would be in this category.

Open = for professional riders. If you take any money for training or lessons, you are by default a professional.

Amateur = this category is new, so I'm not really sure what it's for yet. Maybe people like me who rider and horse started at the same time?

updownrider 09-04-2013 10:46 AM

MyBoyPuck- In the USEF Rule Book for Eventing, Rule 4.1 - 4.9 has the rule you want to read for the exact definition.

http://usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2013/13-EV.pdf

I can't copy just that rule, but if you scroll down to rule 4 you will see what the difference is between Horse, Rider, Open and Amateur.

MyBoyPuck 09-04-2013 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by updownrider (Post 3545673)
MyBoyPuck- In the USEF Rule Book for Eventing, Rule 4.1 - 4.9 has the rule you want to read for the exact definition.

http://usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2013/13-EV.pdf

I can't copy just that rule, but if you scroll down to rule 4 you will see what the difference is between Horse, Rider, Open and Amateur.


Thanks but that doesn't really answer my original question. In other parts of the country, do the shows separate people according to skills level, or lump them all into one group like they did at my shows.

Thames Pirate 09-05-2013 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyBoyPuck (Post 3541866)
My understanding is:

Rider = rider is more experienced at the level than horse

Horse = horse is more experienced. All been there done that school horses would be in this category.

Open = for professional riders. If you take any money for training or lessons, you are by default a professional.

Amateur = this category is new, so I'm not really sure what it's for yet. Maybe people like me who rider and horse started at the same time?

No wonder you are confused--your definitions are wrong!

Typically the Rider division is for anyone new at the level. While technically you can have competed one level up (or more if it was forever ago), it's basically any rider who is at that level, regardless of the horse. So if you are a BN rider on an Olympic horse, you are in the Rider division. Typically (but not always) if you are a BN rider on a BN horse, you are in the Rider division as well.

The Horse division is the opposite. So if I were a high level pro bringing up a young horse, I would have a BN horse regardless of my level--so I would be in BN Horse (same rules--specific on how high a horse can have competed and when, but I would have to look them up).

The Open division is anybody. Not just pros. Open to any rider, any horse.

The Amateur is for someone who is a declared amateur and has filled out the appropriate paperwork for it. There are very specific and quite stringent rules on what can disqualify you from Ammy status, and you MUST meet the requirements AND fill out the amateur status when you register with the USEA.



So typically you will have an Open division and a Rider division to start out. If entries warrant you might have a Horse division or an Ammy division separately. You might have a Junior division--which can be horse, rider, or open (if they don't list it it's Open).

So my last show there were two divisions of Sr. Training Rider, an Open Training, and a Junior Training. There were no Horse divisions--they were all either in Open, Junior, or Rider. There were not enough inexperienced horses being ridden by high level riders to warrant a separate division from the Open or they just lumped them all in the Open division because it's easier if they need to move someone around.

When I enter a show I typically prefer Rider, Open, Horse divisions. If I qualify as an Ammy that year I prefer Rider, Ammy, Open, Horse.

MyBoyPuck 09-06-2013 05:40 PM

Thanks for clearing that up. Funny enough there is a blog on EN about the same thing I was wondering about, finding upper level riders in your little BN division. By the way these definitions seem to cross each other in several ways, I can now see why they usually end up making them all open divisions.


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