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"Driving is more dangerous"

23K views 62 replies 38 participants last post by  SilverMaple 
#1 ·
My friend bought a cart for her horse, that 16 years ago, was in the national top 10 for driving in Arab Nationals. Her horse loves driving. She had her horse pull the cart at the end of her wedding.

But now, she won't drive at all, because it is way too dangerous. Too risky, the horse could flip, bolt, etc etc. Yet she continues to ride, even though the same thing coukd happen, just on top of the horse.

Do you think riding and driving are equally dangerous, or one is more dangerous than the other?
 
#2 ·
My friend bought a cart for her horse, that 16 years ago, was in the national top 10 for driving in Arab Nationals. Her horse loves driving. She had her horse pull the cart at the end of her wedding.

But now, she won't drive at all, because it is way too dangerous. Too risky, the horse could flip, bolt, etc etc. Yet she continues to ride, even though the same thing coukd happen, just on top of the horse.

Do you think riding and driving are equally dangerous, or one is more dangerous than the other?
I think driving can be more dangerous because of the inexperienced getting in the cart with out knowing the proper safety techniques and they panic if something goes wrong or drive a horse before it is trained properly.
A lot of people use a parade as there 1st time out in public and that scares me also.

If you fall off riding, the horse may run back to the barn or stop soon. If you fall out of the cart and the horse is loose it is much more dangerous to the innocent bystanders because something is chasing them which is wider and will bounce and hit things which will make it keep running.

If a horse is loose other horses should be ok but when a horse is loose and pulling a cart it can be upsetting to other horses.
 
#3 ·
They both have their dangers. Personally I've always seen driving as just a little bit more dangerous than riding (because of the distance of contact). With that said though, an experienced person in the cart is more than capable of handling it just as well as a person riding.

I've been in carts with horses who throw ungodly fits and me and my boss have handled it as well as we could when riding the horse. The problem I see is when people who haven't ever driven, consider it 'the same' or 'too similar' to riding and just jump in and go. Driving is another ball game when something happens because:

In riding an accident: you have to account for you, the horse, getting clear of the horse, your surroundings, and where your horse will go.

In driving an accident: you have to account for you, the horse, the cart, getting clear of the horse AND cart, your surroundings, the cart flipping, where your horse will go, where your cart will go and if you have to (like if the horse has slipped and fallen) how to extract the horse quickly from everything and get it under control.

In some ways I think that driving requires you to know the horse inside and out and know what they're going to do and what stops them. But riding can be just as dangerous as driving. The only bad thing I've ever had was when we had a horse bolt and then slip and fall in the traces. It took me and my boss about thirty seconds to have him clear of harness, cart and people. She always instilled in me that driving requires you to act quick and determinedly and know that gravity doesn't care about where you are in relation to the cart. So long as you know how to react in a situation I think it's just as safe as riding. :)
 
#9 ·
your going to let one video change your mind? Here are some photo's for you to consider before you decide:

Wouldn't this be fun to trot down a back dirt road? The steady foot fall of your favorite mount, the crispness of fall, watching your horses ears as they go along?


Before you say that driving is "bad", if you look close, there is a 3 year old little boy in my lap helping me drive two 1800lb Percheron mares hitched to a wagon. Not all driving animals are high strung or hot or going to cause a wreck:


First time I drove a team, my mare Smoke and my mentor who is on the box, Bob Brennan, with his mare Rosie, in an arena, having only about 16hrs of driving time with a team and a wagon with no undercut, I placed 2nd:


In an arena, it was windy, the loud speakers were right above us on either side and a large crowd, I am on the lines. Doing public education with our mares, you can tell they are so upset :):


The point I am trying to make, don't let one video of a horse we don't know the history of, how far along in it's training, how long it has been driving, etc. put you off on a sport that yes, holds its dangers, but so does everything else we do with our equines. A well trained driving horse, or team, can bring so much joy to you, your family, grandchildren and children a like. I don't compete anymore, nor do we do public education, we just enjoy. You develop a bond with your driving horse, they trust you and you trust them and when that happens, there isn't anything you can't do. I have been in situations with my mare's that yes, I should of thought it out a bit more, but....I trusted them to get me through the rough trail and the tight spot, I had the knowledge to get us out as well and we did it. Have I had a bad wreck and/or witnessed them? Absolutely.

Go driving with someone you know and who is skilled.
 
#12 ·
First off let me tell you a few things about that video.

1. That driver should have known that the horse was upset and never entered the ring, or called a time out and called his handler in.
2. When the horse got lose they should have taken all the horses out. Why? Beacuse that horse knows safty in numbers. The other horses are in the middle and he wants to be with them.
3. Once the horses are out. Just let me run himself down on the outside of the arena.


Now let me tell you are few things about driving that i love. My horse was just a riding horse before I started to drive. Now he drives. Here are a few pictures of my horse and myself driving at a local driving show. I took champion for the year.


Here is the first time I ever drove a horse. This is tex and tory. A pair of driving horses my trainer (on the back) shows at CDE's. Sadly tory has passed away a few years ago. So now Tex (the lighter one) is a single.


Here is a picture of me and my horse at this years Darby and pace marathon. We have a lot of fun things with can do for driving such as ADTs and CDEs. Let alone the amount of driving clinics and shows.
 
#29 ·
First off let me tell you a few things about that video.

Why? Beacuse that horse knows safty in numbers. The other horses are in the middle and he wants to be with them.
3. Once the horses are out. Just let me run himself down on the outside of the arena.






1. That driver should have known that the horse was upset and never entered the ring, or called a time out and called his handler in.
I don't think there was any indication of a problem before the class. I understand it was a very experienced horse and when on to drive with out incident.
2. When the horse got lose they should have taken all the horses out.
Why? Because that horse knows safety in numbers. The other horses are in the middle and he wants to be with them.
How do you propose they do that? If you headed for the gate and the horse came up on you and hit you or followed you out of the gate then what? I could see a lot of drivers not having the confidence to exit safely at the proper time and the gate would have to be open a fairly long time to get horse and vehicle out all while one is running up on you.
 
#14 ·
Driving is more dangerous than riding bc the horse's vision is more limited bc of blinders and he cannot shy away bc of the cart/carriage.
That being said a bombproof cart horse and a bombproof riding horse are harder and harder to come by.
It doesn't deter me for wanted Buster Brown to get trained to drive next year.
 
#15 ·
If the video I'm thinking of, the one of the arab cart class, I seen it on one of the tv shows on Animal Planet. I think Untamed and Uncut? There was bees by the fence and that horse happened to get stung by one. I don't think thats really a fair video to say that driving is way more dangerous than riding.. The horse could have easily bolted under saddle by being stung too.
 
#19 ·
I love driving! I don't think it's any more or less dangerous than riding. It's just a different set of risks.

Now, harness racing is a little scarier, to me, because you get buckled into the cart.
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#26 ·
I love driving! I don't think it's any more or less dangerous than riding. It's just a different set of risks.

Now, harness racing is a little scarier, to me, because you get buckled into the cart.
Posted via Mobile Device
Harness drivers are NOT buckled into the bike (cart), they sit on a small seat with a low back, maybe 1-2 inches high. Their legs are up in metal stirrups that are placed along the shafts. Balance and the slight pressure they create pushing on the stirrups is what keeps them in the seat. Not all seats are made that way either, our training cart has a flat seat and I have very short legs, shorter than the stirrups can adjust, I can only rest my toes on them. It's always a thrill, lol!! I don't believe that there are any more inherent risks involved in driving than riding, I do both and have been injured more riding and on the ground than driving :/
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#20 ·
I just wanted to clarify that I think that driving has the POTENTIAL to be more dangerous than riding.
The video that I posted is one that I accidentally viewed soon after training my horse to drive. Boy, did it scare the crap out of me! I hadn't thought much about the risk of driving, at least not in that it differed much from riding but this video showed me that it does.
There's so much more to account for (a cart, possible passengers, limited vision by the horse due to wearing blinders, less contact ect.).
That being said, I think that the danger involved in driving correlates directly with the disposition and training of your horse. My horse is dead calm, super steady and as close to literally bombproof as they get. I feel just as safe driving him as I do riding him. I think that driving is a blast and I wouldn't want to deter anyone from trying it. Just make sure you have a very trustworthy horse and a knowledgeable trainer to guide you.
 
#22 ·
Sorry, not trying to stir things up here and I still have a goal to learn driving, I have done it before with VERY experienced guidance and well trained horses, but I see it is not something to be taken lightly! It is unfamiliar to me so I do find it a bit scary, especially seeing a scene like that!
 
#23 ·
Personally, I would never do driving because there's not an easy bail out or emergency dismount. If the horse(s) bolt, you're screwed. It's not like you can leap off or do a one rein stop. I'm too much of a weenie for it. :)
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#24 · (Edited)
Don't know anything about driving:

So I watched the video and now I have a few dumb questions ( I know NOTHING about driving) so sorry if this is really stupid?

1. In almost all tack that I use or have seen used there is a "quick release" or "breakaway" function to the tack. For example leather reins break if a horse steps through them so that way they can get free and not hurt.
Do carts (sorry if that is the wrong term) not have a quick release if a horse gets in trouble? This might be dumb because obviously if the cart is being pulled you would not want it to break free but something that has can break away if the cart tips over etc?

2. When the first horse became upset would it have been too difficult to get the other horses to leave the arena to get them out of harms way? Most of the horses looked like they were handling the commotion well and looked like they could have exited safely. What about un-tacking them quickly and just getting a halter on so that why if the did spook it was without the cart?

3. Wouldn't it have been better to let the horse run itself out or just stop on its own, the first horse was obviously using its panicked brain but with so many of those men (not trying to criticize but I thought that made it worse) chasing it and yelling it is no wonder why it kept panicking. Could they have tried to keep it on the out side and set up an inner perimeter to keep it from wrecking into the other horses instead of jumping in front of it?

4. At the end did the man with the rope do something to break the cart free from the horse? Does any one know if the second horse ever got up, it looks like it tripped on its tack? :(

5. What kind of horses were they - they were stunningly beautiful.

6. What about a pickup man or an out rider. If there was a saddle horse in the arena could it have joined up with the runaway and brought it down to a trot, walk and then stand still? I'm thinking like a pickup horse in rodeo or an out rider in TB racing but then again with all the rigging of the carts it would be horrible if another horse and rider were to get caught up in it. I have seen that work with panicked horses before but obviously not one dragging a cart and everything.

I have seen wrecks in rodeo, jumping etc... it seems like here it was a green horse that was nervous and then became a domino effect of one bad thing after another. Could have happened in any equestrian sport.

As far as dangerousness goes I agree with Enduku horses all ways have the potential of being dangerous, english, western, driving etc.

It's a risk we take but do everything to try to minimize.

Sorry another question:

One of the horses looks like its tail is pinned to the cart? Is that to keep it from dragging or getting caught up?
 
#40 ·
So I watched the video and now I have a few dumb questions ( I know NOTHING about driving) so sorry if this is really stupid?

1. In almost all tack that I use or have seen used there is a "quick release" or "breakaway" function to the tack. For example leather reins break if a horse steps through them so that way they can get free and not hurt.
Do carts (sorry if that is the wrong term) not have a quick release if a horse gets in trouble? This might be dumb because obviously if the cart is being pulled you would not want it to break free but something that has can break away if the cart tips over etc?

2. When the first horse became upset would it have been too difficult to get the other horses to leave the arena to get them out of harms way? Most of the horses looked like they were handling the commotion well and looked like they could have exited safely. What about un-tacking them quickly and just getting a halter on so that why if the did spook it was without the cart?

3. Wouldn't it have been better to let the horse run itself out or just stop on its own, the first horse was obviously using its panicked brain but with so many of those men (not trying to criticize but I thought that made it worse) chasing it and yelling it is no wonder why it kept panicking. Could they have tried to keep it on the out side and set up an inner perimeter to keep it from wrecking into the other horses instead of jumping in front of it?

4. At the end did the man with the rope do something to break the cart free from the horse? Does any one know if the second horse ever got up, it looks like it tripped on its tack? :(

5. What kind of horses were they - they were stunningly beautiful.

6. What about a pickup man or an out rider. If there was a saddle horse in the arena could it have joined up with the runaway and brought it down to a trot, walk and then stand still? I'm thinking like a pickup horse in rodeo or an out rider in TB racing but then again with all the rigging of the carts it would be horrible if another horse and rider were to get caught up in it. I have seen that work with panicked horses before but obviously not one dragging a cart and everything.

I have seen wrecks in rodeo, jumping etc... it seems like here it was a green horse that was nervous and then became a domino effect of one bad thing after another. Could have happened in any equestrian sport.

As far as dangerousness goes I agree with Enduku horses all ways have the potential of being dangerous, english, western, driving etc.

It's a risk we take but do everything to try to minimize.

Sorry another question:

One of the horses looks like its tail is pinned to the cart? Is that to keep it from dragging or getting caught up?
I don't know the answers to all of these, but I have been driving carriages in downtown Dallas for about four years now, so I might be able to help you a bit.

First of all, there is no "quick release" equipment unless you modify your harness. We use a lot of snaps and things that would break if a horse got hung up since most of our harnesses are made with biothane as opposed to leather.

In my experience, granted my driving is all done in the city as opposed to in arenas and on trails, but typically the horses act more like "what's wrong with him" as opposed to "Bob's freaking out omg end of the world everybody spook!" I didn't watch that particular video, but I have seen others that I'm certain are similar, and I would think to file everyone in the class out and deal with the runaway. He's toting a cart that could very well get hung up on another participant's vehicle if he got too close. One out of harms way, it would be easy to unhitch and halter to be safe.

In regards to chasing the horse, I understand they were trying to get the horse to slow down, but when your horse dumps you and takes off, if you yell and tell him to woah, is he going to? No. My OTTB gelding loves me so much he grooms me and comes when I call him in the pasture, but if he gets loose and I say "Sammy woah!" all he thinks is "crap mom's really ****** I'm not going near that!" Not to mention the horse, is already in a panicked state. An outrider sounds like a great idea for these situations. I'm not well versed in the competitive driving wields, so I don't have much insight for the rest of your questions, but hopefully I helped some!
 
#27 ·
Roux those are all good questions... Honestly, I don't know the answer to most of them.
I don't believe there is such thing a breakaway equipment in driving, beside the fact that a lot of harnesses are made with leather. Possibly someone doing combined driving knows more about it- it seems like if any driving equipment would breakaway it would be combined driving equipment.
I think that the people in that arena could definitely have handled the situation much better but like slidestop mentioned, hindsight is 20/20.
If I were in that situation I would have unhitched my horse from the cart and tried to lead my horse out of the arena as quickly as I could. That being said, I made that a plan in case of a chaotic situation because I have seen this video but who knows if that would even be a reasonable thing to attempt to do if I were ever in that circumstance. I really don't know..
I'm not going to stop driving because of this video but I will be more cautious while I'm driving... I recognize the danger involved but I trust my horse and our relationship enough to take that risk.
 
#28 ·
I think the men were yelling and waving their arms in an attempt to keep it on the outside of the arena, away from the people and other horses in the middle (it didn't work very well, though!) Obviously it was in such a blind panic it wanted to be with the other horses, poor thing! I hope it didn't get hurt when they threw it- I noticed it was still down at the end of the video, although it was obviously exhausted and hyperventilating. and one of the scariest parts was when that first horse trampled the man near the rail. Heck, the whole thing was pretty scary! I think a vet with a tranquilizer gun would have been useful there.
 
#30 ·
rideing and driveing axedents

well i have had 2 crashes i was knocked out once i had no hat on i hit a steel 5 bar farm gate as the cart toppled over.
it was because an old motorbike back fired.
i was on one wheel as he bolted in to the yard and hit a rock and the above happend i was draged with the cart on its side knocked out and fell out on to the electric fence.
well i got zaped a number of times the guy who was rideing the motor bike started shakeing me as he came on to the yard.
i was heaverley concussed and could see tricky makeing his way to the car park on the yard i started to run and was weaveing all over the place.
thay herded him in to a paddock and thay cought him.
i was cut and bleeding from my head and hands and knees.
rideing i have one pony slip over on me and crushed my foot in the stirrop iron and my anckle was jet black.
when i first started rideing i kept geting bucked off and we would go for a canter over tottenham mashes snowy would stop dead and the saddle would go up her neck as she put her head down i would go crashing to the floor i can see it now the girth round her four feet.
she bucked me in to a tree boy did that hurt.
so i intorduced the crupper i had a d fitted on to the saddle.
no matter what i did or how tite the girth was it moved.
well she was a little bit of a bronco and the crupper did the job and we had a great 8 years of rideing.
aldo lungeing dragged along the floor twice.
and the latest one draged in the paddock with a lead rope as a wrist loop well i was tired he was fresh and that combination dont mix.
i have got a fractured shoulder and have got 95% movement back now.
i will say this i dont bounce like i use to im geting old lol i think my body is telling me something.
its all the abuce of work and horse rideing in all weathers over the years i supose has taken a toll on my body im a bit stiff and arthrittic a bit but i carry on.
would i change any of the above no i have enjoyed every minuit of it and i would not change it for the world so i just carry on and enjoy what i have got.
i was going to hang up my reins when tricky passes on but i had quincy passed on to me so more time in the cart and the saddle lol so my horse years have been extended again.
 
#32 ·
video

yes its the same one i was told on a number of times by verious people that there was eather bees or wasps present and thats what started it off i had this discussion with a few people on here who pointed out the bees or wasps and the horses got stung aparantley.
all sports activatys with horses have a high risks even if you dont have a horse walking in the street is just as dangerous with cars ect.
what would you rather do enjoy life ride and drive or vegitate in front of the tv cucooned in your own little world as the world passes you by.
 
#33 ·
I think the incident with the arabian driving class gone wrong was preventable.

If anyone pays close attention- look at the tail length on those horses! In order to keep their tails in pristine condition, those horses are often stalled. Being arabians, they do not get enough exercise when stalled, and come into the arena all hyper and ready to go. I don't see why most people would want to drive a horse like an arabian (as they are so high strung), and I don't see why it makes any sense to stall them all the time...

For those arabian people on here, I am sure there are some that do well at it, but most Arabians are not what I consider suitable for driving. I won't ever teach my TB to drive either- No thanks!

Driving should be reserved for a horse that is dead quiet and only spooks in place. The vast majority of horses do not match that description!

The only reason I am considering driving with my mare is because her spook is to flinch and stop. The only time she threw me off was when she stepped on the hose and it blasted on underneath her. She jumped forward a few strides and stopped and I slid off her hind end. She was only 2 when that happened. :wink:

Her reaction to being ground driven with poles? None. Her reaction to guns? None. If she looses the pole when ground driving, what does she do? She stops. If a deer jumps straight out of the bushes at her, what does she do? She stops. That is what you want in a good driving horse.
 
#37 ·
I think the incident with the arabian driving class gone wrong was preventable.

If anyone pays close attention- look at the tail length on those horses! In order to keep their tails in pristine condition, those horses are often stalled. Being arabians, they do not get enough exercise when stalled, and come into the arena all hyper and ready to go. I don't see why most people would want to drive a horse like an arabian (as they are so high strung), and I don't see why it makes any sense to stall them all the time...

For those arabian people on here, I am sure there are some that do well at it, but most Arabians are not what I consider suitable for driving. I won't ever teach my TB to drive either- No thanks!

Driving should be reserved for a horse that is dead quiet and only spooks in place. The vast majority of horses do not match that description!
First, arabians are not stalled ALL THE TIME. Some trainers keep them stalled, but they can go out to pasture with those tails. Tails are usually up and tied in a wrap to keep them safe.

Also, these arabs probably got out every day for exercise. It is a LARGE show they are at, so they have been worked much of their life. They love love love their jobs.

Again, the horse was stung by a bee. See if you can put bees on your horse and have them not spook.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Yes, driving has the potential to be far more dangerous than riding is. It is so much easier to cowboy a horse into riding than into driving. Reason being, as long as you can sit on the horse, you can 'break' it, according to certain methods. No credible trainer is going to hook a cart to an untouched horse and just hold on. It takes a lot of work to get a horse responsive enough where putting a cart on them is even a good idea.

I recently hitched my mare to a cart for the first time. She did wonderfully, just needed to learn how to turn in the shafts. Before I even thought of putting the cart on her, I had her dragging tires, logs, chains, drags, etc to get her used to as much as I could. She has a pretty solid whoa, and if she doesn't understand something, or things start falling apart, she'll stop. Both good and bad, but I much prefer her to stop at the sign of trouble than get frustrated or flighty. I had her pulling a little 'wagon' that is the size of one small hay bale and we squeezed between a building and a metal trailer. When we turned, the wagon caught the trailer and made wretched noises. She took a step, the stopped to give me time to get the stuff untangled. Some horses are a bit more wise as driving horses than others, plain and simple.
 

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