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-   -   What do you think of his shoe job? Why does he keep pullingn shoes? (http://www.horseforum.com/hoof-care/what-do-you-think-his-shoe-301233/)

beau159 10-25-2013 12:35 PM

What do you think of his shoe job? Why does he keep pullingn shoes?
 
Okay, I am going to try to summarize Red, my 7-yr-old quarter horse.

Bought him May 2012. Rode him pretty hard the whole summer. He had Jan 2013 to April off, due to him getting a back leg in the fence. Flexion tested by good lameness vet in April and good to go. In May he had 30 hard days with a reining trainer. In June, I started to notice a slight head bob and limp, that would come and over. Very faint. Took him to the lameness vet again in July and she thought a crooked short pastern joint in both front legs was to blame. (Full thread here: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-heal...ssible-224586/ ). Red is slightly pigeon-toed and he will wear the outside of his hoof quicker than the inside. Shortly after that vet visit, my farrier looked at the X-rays from my vet and we decided on a 2 degree wedge shoe in front, with wedge pads. Took away the lameness 100%. Then in September, he was crossfiring in his back end during a barrel turn, and took him back to the vet to find out he has a catching stifle on his right hind. I'm currently working him on hills for that; no more barrels for right now.

Now, the main reason I am posting a question is because Red constantly catches a shoe or pulls one off completely. He sees the farrier every 5 weeks to reset the shoes. The very first 5-week period was fine. But after that:
-bent left front shoe
-bent right front shoe
-pulled off back left shoe (I had regular rim shoes on back for about 2 months, for the sole purpose of traction for barrels)
-bent right front shoe
-pulled off left front shoe
-And as of 2 days ago, he bent his right front shoe

So I've been making a lot of trips to the farrier (who has never charged me a cent for these in-between visits) to fix the bent shoe, or replace a pulled one.

I do trust my farrier, and everyone I talk to has only good things to say about him, but I am wondering if there is something my farrier can do differently to avoid these pulled shoes? Or if Red is just clumsy and prone to pulling them?

He has never caught a shoe while riding. All of it has happened when he is in the pasture (24/7) with my 2-yr-old gelding. I do know that they romp and play because I've seen them, and I've seen the tracks in the mud when it has rained.

I ran out quick last night and snapped some pictures of his right front shoe. I pulled the left front shoe off completely myself, because I didn't want him walking around on it for 2 days until I could get him to the farrier.

What are your thoughts?

(On this first picture, he doesn't always stand this base narrow, but sometimes he does. He is somewhat pigeon-toed.)
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ps1946ff45.jpg


http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k2...psb150dff1.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ps3b8a3c60.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k2...pse953399b.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k2...psdd667c52.jpg

beau159 10-25-2013 12:37 PM

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ps7102429f.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ps6ae7fbd0.jpg


http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k2...psd423b718.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k2...psdbe429c7.jpg


http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k2...psc1910bff.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k2...psd24558db.jpg

beau159 10-25-2013 12:38 PM

And of course we need a head shot to evaluate his feet. :-P

My pretty boy!!

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ps71f28fc9.jpg

MN Tigerstripes 10-25-2013 01:17 PM

My boy has been pulling shoes in the pasture since I started shoeing him 2 years ago. After a lot of trial and error we ended up spooning the back of the shoe and rockering (not sure if that's the right term) the front of the shoe. That solved the problem.

princessfluffybritches 10-25-2013 04:29 PM

Spooning the shoe sounds like a good way. Have you tried bell boots out in pasture?
If he's wearing the outside of the shoe quicker than the inside, is the farrier altering his side to side balance for the toe-in? Obviously he doesn't like it. He might like his hooves where they are wearing both inside and outside evenly. Yes, that can cause lameness.

beau159 10-25-2013 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MN Tigerstripes (Post 3955513)
My boy has been pulling shoes in the pasture since I started shoeing him 2 years ago. After a lot of trial and error we ended up spooning the back of the shoe and rockering (not sure if that's the right term) the front of the shoe. That solved the problem.

I've had a few people mention that, so I'm going to ask my farrier about it when I take Red to him tonight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by princessfluffybritches (Post 3956713)
Have you tried bell boots out in pasture?

To me, if a horse is going to step on himself with such FORCE that it bends the metal and/or pulls the shoe off completely .... what is a bell boot going to do? They'll still rip off the shoe through the bell boot, and probably just rip the bell boot. That's a way of thinking that makes sense to me, and my farrier agrees with me.

However, I know other farriers who swear by leaving bell boots on a horse, so I had kinda figured to try it next year, just for the sake of trying it (even though it doesn't make sense to me).

I say next year because I think I am going to have his other shoe taken off tonight, and go barefoot for the winter, now that our riding will be less with the weather.


Quote:

Originally Posted by princessfluffybritches (Post 3956713)
If he's wearing the outside of the shoe quicker than the inside, is the farrier altering his side to side balance for the toe-in? Obviously he doesn't like it. He might like his hooves where they are wearing both inside and outside evenly. Yes, that can cause lameness.

You mis-understood me.

BEFORE I had gotten him shoed, he would always wear the outside of his hooves before the inside, because he is a little base narrow and pigeon-toed. When he is wearing the shoes, obviously his feet stay more even because they are not wearing uneven.

My farrier also specifically places the shoes to help him load and land more evenly. His left shoe he places slightly more to the outside to help balance the way he lands and falls. We can't change the fact that he is pigeon-toed and you can't alter the hoof to make up for it (because you'd just make things worse). But you can change where you place the shoe on the foot to help distribute the stress more evenly.

smrobs 10-25-2013 06:00 PM

One of the more common corrections for a horse who constantly over-reaches is to dub the toes on the front to ease breakover and sometimes, if that doesn't help, to leave a bit of shoe sticking out behind the hinds to make them land a little shorter. In theory, that should shorten the stride on the hind end where he's not catching those fronts before he can get them picked up. BUT, this is the old cowboy method of correcting that :wink:. I'm sure there are other ways that might work better.

One thing I found out while riding Rafe (he forges terribly) is that when I allow him to get front-heavy and strung out, that's when he forges. If I keep him moving right with impulsion, he does it a lot less often.

loosie 10-25-2013 06:12 PM

Those are some high heels & long, flared toes, so not surprised he's pulling shoes. These sort of angles will also be making 'navicular' & other effects gradually worse, although I appreciate wedging heels is commonly a good palliative for 'navicular' pain.

spirit88 10-25-2013 06:15 PM

Princessfluffybritches my pigion toed horse wears his front hoofs off more on the outside....then on the inside. Hes not altered from side to side either.

Hes level after trim but by next trim same deal happens.

CLaPorte432 10-25-2013 06:32 PM

I know very little about feet but I do see some major heel...To me, it almost looks like he's standing on his toes. Like "tip-toeing" almost. And his front feet look a lot like my mare's grade 1 Club foot. :-/


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