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Scoutrider 06-27-2009 09:04 AM

Anky and Rollkur
 
Please forgive any misspelling in the title, lol.

I must be dreadfully behind the times, but I have heard on other posts and online allusions to Anky van Grunsven and something called Rollkur. I'm not terribly well versed in the technicalities of advanced dressage training, and I was wondering if someone could please clarify what Rollkur is, and the story behind the allusions and snippets I've heard in various places.

The only knowledge I have of Anky is a secondhand VHS tape of the '96 Atlanta Olympics Dressage (With lots of Anky and Bonfire), and the Anky dressage saddles in SLT catalogs. Not much dressage on RFDTV, at least not when I'm watching, lol.

Thanks for explaining and clarifying!

Spyder 06-27-2009 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoutrider (Post 337163)
Please forgive any misspelling in the title, lol.

I must be dreadfully behind the times, but I have heard on other posts and online allusions to Anky van Grunsven and something called Rollkur. I'm not terribly well versed in the technicalities of advanced dressage training, and I was wondering if someone could please clarify what Rollkur is, and the story behind the allusions and snippets I've heard in various places.

The only knowledge I have of Anky is a secondhand VHS tape of the '96 Atlanta Olympics Dressage (With lots of Anky and Bonfire), and the Anky dressage saddles in SLT catalogs. Not much dressage on RFDTV, at least not when I'm watching, lol.

Thanks for explaining and clarifying!


Now I am not a fan of Anky's riding nor of rollkur or what it is now called hyperflexion but rollkur has been around LONG before Anky. I believe because Anky practiced it in the open is why she is getting the bad rep as if she invented it but German Nicole Uphoff was using the same techniques on Rembrant, however because it was behind closed doors it was all hush hush.

In short Hyperflexion is when the horse is driven hard from behind, with the rider holding the horse to the point of it going behind the vertical and even having the face parallel to the ground, or into his chest. This means that the top muscle along the back is being stretched forward , with the muscles behind are being pushed under causing huge stress on the sacro-iliac region.

CessBee 06-27-2009 06:54 PM

Good description Spyder. Not only is it in dressage people are using it in jumping and western too if you'll believe it
if you didnt know what it looks like, here are some pictures of a horses being worked in Rollkur, or hyperflexion
http://dressage.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/pp.jpg
http://www.wittelsbuerger.de/additio...6/rollkur2.jpg
http://everyrider.typepad.com/photos...13closeupf.jpg
http://www.ethicalhorsemanship.com/w...ve-300x267.jpg

1dog3cats17rodents 06-27-2009 07:24 PM

I agree it is horrible, but I have a question. One pony at my barn will act up sometimes and she likes to stick her nose on her chest for a split second. Is this different because it is not caused by firce? Or can SMALL amounts of hyperflexion (split second) actually be okay?

CessBee 06-27-2009 07:39 PM

This pony could be avoiding the contact, due to pain or fear, possibly, i dont know the pony so couldnt say.

with the moments of hyperflexion if you notice in the paddock horse will ocasionally toss their heads and tuck in their noses, also they may reach around to their shoulder to scratch. So i think just very momentarilly hyperflexion will not cause any ill effects to the horse, its with the horse being worked constantly in that frame that does the damage

1dog3cats17rodents 06-27-2009 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CessBee (Post 337454)
This pony could be avoiding the contact, due to pain or fear, possibly, i dont know the pony so couldnt say.

Yeah, the pony is avoiding contact. It's because she's a little snnottles though, she's not in pain or anything

Scoutrider 06-27-2009 09:24 PM

Thanks for the replies! :-)

Is the sought result of Rollkur work basically a predisposition to carry the head and neck in a more "on the bit" frame without the correct aids all the time? Or hurrying a horse into a falsely collected headset? :? Sorry if I'm being dense, but this seems like an extreme way if that's the idea.
Thanks again!

CessBee 06-28-2009 03:04 AM

I read some where that Anky uses it to make the work harder for the horse, so when in competition the horse finds it easy to complete the manouvers when its just on the bit

morganshow11 06-28-2009 08:49 AM

I think the dressage Rollkur is awy worse than the others.

RedRoan 06-28-2009 10:29 AM

Quote:

I think the dressage Rollkur is awy worse than the others.
Hm... I don't know about that.... Rollkur in just of itself is just plain sad. How its used is pretty much all the same.... shoving the nose into the chest.


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