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EatSleepRide 07-06-2009 08:38 AM

Most stubborn horse I ever met!! HELP
I recently started working with a young mare. She just turned 3 and was started at about 2 and a half years old. She's a very big young quarter horse. She is very good when ridden, but very pushy on the ground. So I started doing ground work with leading, to help improve that (and it has) and wanted to start some round pen work for respect and to start getting a bond. This is the laziest baby I've ever known! I have tried every trick that I know to get her to move out and keep moving out and it is beyond me. I run at her, get aggressive both verbally and with my body language. I have tried using a lead rope and a lunge whip. I can run up to her aggressively yelling, cracking the whip and she just stands there and looks at the dirt. I have tapped her repeatedly with the lunge whip (tap, not beat) and she doesn't care! She has no respect, she's bored, she's defiant and I'm at a loss of how to handle this. After 20 years with horses, I have never in my life seen one this stubborn! And I have trained babies before... they usually WANT to go, but not her.
Any advice??

HalfPass 07-06-2009 11:48 AM

Hi there...
I would say she is not stubborn....just disrespectful and chucking dirt at you while your trying to get her to move...
CA has great Round pen excerises to get the horse going and undersstand that YOU...mean business...when she just stand there and you tap her....what does your body language say??? I would not beat a horse but a spank is sometimes necessary to get thte job done...but only whenit is rubbed away when the right behavior is chosen by the horse...
If you were to spanck her on the butt and she moved even the slightest bit then i might take that and reward with a small rub of the stick or whip...maybe his Colt starting dvd....
She clearly sounds like she could care less.....what your asking her to do...
Sometimes my horse will do that and it clearly takes a spank to say "hey i said move!!!" once he does attempt to move i rub that spank away and then ask for more move ment....Scoutrider is really9 good with this stuff so hopefully she will respnd to this thread...
I hope this has helped some... Sounds like this youngster needs a wake up call and a lesson it who is the leader...
good luck ...
Half Pass...
Oh...try not to be aggressive because you do not want her to be afraid as the end result....body language is huge...I found the more I let my horses lack of doing something bother me the worse he was...when I was like..okay...whatever...he relaxed more and then listened tomy body language...

dressagebelle 07-06-2009 02:01 PM

I'm working a horse who was the opposite. On the ground he was great, turned out he moved when asked, but once in the saddle he refused to move, and had a tendancy to rear up, as his previous rider only took him on trail, and he learned that he got beligerant, and she'd end the ride and take him home. He's a huge 6 year old halter Quarter Horse, who spent his first few years doing halter shows all across CA and Arizona. I just kept asking and pushing and as soon as he moved forward, even a step, I'd reward him, and tell him he was a good boy, and it took a few weeks, but now, he actually doesn't want to stop. He loves to be worked, and gets very excited when I show up. Just find something that works to get her to move even a step, and take baby steps, bond with her, get to know her, and soon she should start listening better. Seems like maybe whoever first rode her did very little arena work, and so now she thinks that she can get away with doing nothing, and especially since you are new, that she can take advantage.

EatSleepRide 07-06-2009 04:03 PM

I have tried what I read in an article of Clinton Anderson's called "lunging for respect" and it has gotten me no where. I started very easy-going with her, I'm a soft person, people like me to work with their horses because I am so gentle and patient. This horse is a different story. Acting that way got me no where, so I had to be more aggressive, which helps for about 3 workouts, then at the forth, she did NOTHING for me. I did even spank her with the lunge whip and she just stood there and tried to eat pieces of manure in front of her on the ground. She didn't even look at me. I tried putting a plastic bag at the end of the lunge whip and it got her moving, but I HATE to do that. I feel like I am cheating and teaching her that it is OK to react out of fear. What will happen on a windy day when a plastic bag blows passed her? That's why I don't like using that method.... got the job done today, but I need something more substantial. There is something that I am missing. She likes being ridden, but seems to think anything on the ground is pointless and boring.

Spirithorse 07-06-2009 05:20 PM

Ohhhh, I LOVE horses like this!! lol! They are sooo much fun! Okay, first of all, getting all loud and big in your body and energy will not do a darn thing with this horse. She will just tune you out and ignore you. So you need to get waaaaay more subtle in your body and requests. You need to get into her BRAIN because trying to force the body to move isn't going to get you anywhere.
Turn her loose in the round pen and leave for a minute. Get yourself a lead rope (perferably one with a poper on the end of it) and when you go back into the round pen, take note of what she does. At any point she isn't facing you, head toward her butt in a wide arch. As you get closer, get slower....really intense....crouch down some.....slow down even reeeeeallly intense....then, when you are close enough (but out of the kick zone!) take your lead rope and flick her on the gaskin, under the belly, or some sensitive spot. When she turns to look at you stand up and walk away. Don't sneek away, WALK WITH PURPOSE. If she just goes off, just follow her but not so close where she feels you are chasing her, if that makes sense. If after a while she doesn't look at you (if she just went off) go sit down in the canter of the pen and wait for her to make the next move. If she looks at you, great! If she ignores you, get up and repeat the process. Once you have her attention then you can start asking her to do things. Does all that make sense? If not, please let me know so I can clarify.

TroubledTB 07-07-2009 05:06 PM

Ok my two cents in the ring. It's a 3 yr old mare, I went through the same thing. She kinda just grew out of it, they just got hormorne's and all I can say is reinforce good behavior and dissapprove of bad. Not many horses are perfect at three, and esp. mares. We had one fight I regret/remember but I know was neccesary. Make sure it's just one though. Be patient and wait a year. Sometimes you just have to forgive age. As for specifics, I don't know, anything that seems to work, I'm uncoventional, but you will probably come out with a great bond in the end, just be reasonable about your time frame.

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