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-   -   Long term, off the farm lease. (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-law/long-term-off-farm-lease-310857/)

Brighteyes 11-11-2013 12:33 AM

Long term, off the farm lease.
 
I'm going to college this fall, and I've been considering leasing out my very nice, finished competition horse. I've found someone who is tossing around the idea of leasing her, and they are going to try her out in the next couple days.

It will be an off farm lease. In fact, an out of state lease. I live in Georgia, and my horse will be going to Alabama. I have never leased a horse, nor have I leased one to someone else. I don't know what to begin charging these people for this lease, what conditions or constrictions I should put on the lease, etc. I'm very new to the idea.

I did hear someone say they leased out their horse like this: they took the total estimated cost of caring for the horse for a year and divided that by 12. That number was what they charged monthly to the person leasing the horse.

And of course the leasee pays for feed, hay, entry fees, shoes...

But what about major vet bills, should they come up?

I was also told I need to take out an insurance policy on my horse. Is this a good idea?

It will be a long term lease. 6 months to a year or more.

GamingGrrl 11-11-2013 12:49 AM

I don't think the leasee should have to pay on top of the horses care, that's kinda ridiculous. In my experience the leasee pays any and all vet bills, farrier, feed, hay, ect.
The only time I would pay money for a lease was if the owner was paying for the horses care.

Unless the horse is extremely valuable, I wouldn't bother with insurance. Just put something in the contract that states that the leasee will owe you the horses worth (specified in the contract) if it dies/becomes permenately lame in their care.
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MyBoySi 11-11-2013 12:57 AM

I have a long term lease that I pay nothing for. I take care of everyday costs, feed, hay, feet, routine vetting and the owner agreed to pay for anything major should it occur.

So far its worked well for everyone involved, I have had said horse for 2+ years. I get to enjoy the horse without the purchase price which I never could have afforded and the owner gets the peace of mind that her horse will always be taken care of and that she can have him back if need be.

I personally wouldn't pay for a lease if I am taking over the daily expense long term. My horses owner has not even been out to see him in 2+ years but only lives 20 mins away.

Brighteyes 11-11-2013 01:15 AM

That sounds pretty easy to put if horse dies/becomes unusable, you owe me X dollars. I don't know how much this horse is worth though. Do I have to have her appraised or just be like, "Well, probably worth about this much."

What about major vet bills? Like, something over, say, 300 dollars? Would I pay that or would the leasee?

verona1016 11-11-2013 01:25 AM

I wouldn't expect the leasee to pay the owner anything if it's an off-farm lease; they'd just cover all the normal costs of hay, feed, farrier, routine vet, etc.

I personally prefer the idea of requiring the leasee to either purchase mortality and/or major medical insurance for the horse, or you purchase insurance and require the leasee to pay any deductibles should the horse require care. I personally wouldn't sign any contract saying I would owe the horse's value if something happened to it, since there are MANY things that can happen that are in no way the fault of the leasee. Putting that on there almost requires the leasee to get a pre-purchase exam as if they were actually buying the horse if they're the least bit savvy. Insurance isn't a huge expense compared to what you already pay for horse care- most seem to be 3% of the declared value for mortality, plus maybe another hundred or two for major medical, depending on how much it covers.

GamingGrrl 11-11-2013 01:27 AM

I think that's a personal choice, I believe the person I'm leasing from had the horse appraised.

In my contract it's stated that the leasee pays all bills, so I pay all bills, including emergency vet bills and contact the owners when the emergency happens.

Edit: I should've clarified early, the money paid if the horse dies or goes lame is from direct neglect or misuse, not freak accidents or anything.
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DuckDodgers 11-11-2013 09:57 AM

If you have a horse that's in high demand with leasees lining up then it's absolutely appropriate to charge a fee above normal care. If that's not the case then I'd just stick to normal costs.

A friend is doing a long-term lease with the gelding she rides. His owners live out of the country, and are leasing out both of their horses. Both my friend and the other girl doing the leasing do not pay anything to the horse's owner, but they pay for all of their expenses. Board, farrier, supplies, vaccines, AND unexpected vet bills. My friend's lease horse had to have pretty extensive treatment for an eye ulcer over the summer, and she had to cover that cost. I don't know what their agreement is for BIG expenses such as colics, but I doubt that the owner would pay for it. I think my friend would be stuck with that cost as well.

In return the friend and other girl have unlimited use of the horse- they are basically their horses. They can ride whenever they want, take the horses off the property to shows and the like, use whatever farrier and vet they want, even let other competent people ride them. They DO need to ask permission if they want to move the horses to another boarding stable, but the owners have been really flexible with that too.

How well do you know this girl that is thinking about leasing? If you don't know her too well I would have her pay for ALL of the horse's expenses (like I would with any full lease) but I would explicitly say that she isn't to take the horse off the property without permission for each instance, and I wouldn't let anyone else ride him. If it's someone that you trust (and I would be VERY careful with who you trust, especially since the horse would be out of state) I'd pretty much let them do what they want.

WSArabians 11-12-2013 07:18 PM

I have someone looking at leasing a few mares, but all are withing driving distance. No way would I send my horse out of state. Heard of too many leases going south.

On condition, however, they pay for all the care (this is a breeding lease) including, feed, shots, dewormers, shelter, etc. They take out a mortality insurance policy as a leasee with payment going to me (for a breeding lease, they usually use the breeding fee as the cost of the insurance - this could be inflated).
I require three references - vet, character, and farrier.

It's clearly stated that I am allowed to come visit said mares with enough advance warning, they will not go where I don't know where they are nor are they to be moved from said property without my knowing.
Should I find at anytime the mares are being neglected, I have full rights to come and haul them asap and end the contract.
A LFG is given so long as the mares are not found to be in neglect and all the points of the contract were followed.
There can either be a fee or they can be bred back. Ultrasounds must be done.

Just get references and have them checked.

DuckDodgers 11-12-2013 08:08 PM

One thing that I would require, in addition to references if you are not VERY familiar with the person and their vet/farrier/etc, would be photo updates of the horse if you aren't able to visit regularly. The friend I have who has been leasing the TB gelding originally found him at a local trainer's barn where she was to start taking lessons. He, along with the lady's other horse and a couple of other horses on the property, were basically half starved. The trainer was allowing them free (or discounted, I don't remember) board in exchange for lesson use. However, she didn't just tell the owners that she was having financial troubles and could no longer feed the horses, and instead just stopped feeding them. This was a lady that they personally knew and trusted, and because of this they thought their two horses were safely in the trainer's care.

Requiring updates every couple of months showing the horse's condition is probably the best way to ensure the horse remains in good condition if you can't drive down there every month or so to see for yourself. I'd even go so far as to have them hold up today's newspaper to make sure they can't fib and use an old photo. It'll take 20 minutes out of the girl's day, and give you peace of mind. It may sound paranoid, but it'll prevent you from coming back in a year and finding a starving horse. My friend's horse's owners didn't even know they were in such condition until she contacted them with photos and inquired about the lease because everything happened over the course of a few months.

Prinella 11-12-2013 08:20 PM

I thought 300 was a small bill. You need agreements in place as to who pays transport if it falls through


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