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anndankev 11-17-2013 05:10 PM

What would it take to rehab, then what would I have?
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I looked at this mare today.

She would be available to me by way of a trade for a 21 year old TWH gelding that the owner is wanting to find a home for, and has offered to me.

I was taken aback by the poor condition of the mare, so I am posting this here in the health section instead of the conformation critique section.

Said to be 3 years old, soon to be 4. Looks maybe like a long 2 yr old to me. Teeth small and blackened in a way I have seen from having to eat manure.

Has had a halter imbedded in face quite some time ago judging by how high up on the face the indentation of the bone is. Current owner says it was still scabby when she got her late spring this year (2013).

Front legs not straight, left badly benched to the outside, right not quite so bad. Something wrong with right rear fetlock??

Owner's boyfriend wants to learn to trim feet. Poor thing looked like rear feet hurt so bad they kind of shook a little with every step.

Supposedly trained to ride, I didn't try, or want to. Owner says she can't get her to do anything, I think she probably doesn't know what to do. But also feel she may have had a lot of stress put on undeveloped joints.

So my questions here are what would it take to bring her to good condition, and then would I have a horse that is conformational-ally sturdy enough for me, a short, plus size rider?

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anndankev 11-17-2013 05:18 PM

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To compare please look at a post I made last week about a 6 yr old gelding I looked at. Name of the post is Possible project.

When we got back to the barn where my daughter works, I got out the 21-yr old TWH gelding that is offered. I might rather just keep him that trade for the mare, and my daughter is not certain she would want to send him there.

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LovesMyDunnBoy 11-17-2013 05:30 PM

So you want to trade the TWH for that 3 year old? I probably wouldn't want to put a horse in their care. Judging by what you've said, they probably don't provide the best care.

If I misunderstood I apologize :)

She's cute for sure.
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walkinthewalk 11-17-2013 05:33 PM

First I wouldn't send ANY horse to the place where that Palomino is. Not under any circumstances.

Second, from everything you describe, even though you're essentially rescuing a horse and it's Buyer Beware, I believe I'd have a vet do a PPE on her to be sure she isn't suffering from EPM, PSSM, you get the picture:(

Thennn, when rescuing a horse, especially one with all the things wrong you describe, you never know what the long-term residual effects will be.

I rescued my now 27+ Arab more than 20 years ago as a starving horse poster child. It didn't take me long to find out he also had an injured vertebra. He's has seen chiropractors, as needed every year for the 20-some years I have owned him; something I wasn't planning on.

He ended up being a horse I could never trail ride but thankfully turned out to be the best lesson horse for small children, one could ask for, when he wasn't being a pasture pet.

Soooo, it just depends how much money you're willing to put into this horse for things that are wrong and are not obvious at the moment. Which is why a PPE would be in order and not by the current Owner's vet:)

Hope this helps:)

Endiku 11-17-2013 05:46 PM

I agree, IMO it isn't fair to put the older gelding in the situation that the young mare is in, although it isn't good for the young one to be there either. Is there a reason you wouldn't want to take on the gelding? At 21, chances are he has already proven himself, and he seems sturdy and in great condition. Of course he likely won't be ridable in a few years and if you want to do strenuous riding, I can understand not wanting him!

The little mare is chancy. Sometimes the rescues turn out great, sometimes not so much. I poured thousands of dollars into the rehab of a filly with some very serious problems (1 on body scale, very sick, terrible feet) but she turned around to be very nice almost a year later and she is about to go to a new home to be used as an all-around trail type horse when she is a bit older. I got lucky. Under all of her emanciation, stunting (she was 12.2hh when I got her, is now 14hh) and illness she had a fundamentally well conformed body. Her legs were all kinds of wonky from long hooves and we really didn't think she'd be ridable, but they smoothed out nicely. BUT. We have no way of knowing if her past situation affected her bone density/formation, or if she has any internal problems that we can't see yet. It really is a gamble. I've heard of many other rescue situations that ended with less than perfect horses. Poor legs, on and off lameness, sudden illness and death from internal problems...its a 50/50 chance. I don't say that to discourage you, but to make you aware. And since you've had so much pain to endure lately, it might be in YOUR best interest to just fine a healthy, well trained, happy horse to love on for a while. It really is up to you.

What I see in this little mare though, is that she is wormy and under that coat she is probably a good 100 lbs underweight. Winter coats can be VERY deceiving. Her hooves are badly underrun which is probably why she acts ouchy when she walks. My filly was on and off lame for a few months while we were correcting her hooves, and abscessed multiple times before we achieved mostly healthy hooves. You would probably be looking at that sort of this with this filly. Or it could be something more serious that is causing the shaking. Like I said, its a gample. Her extremely upright pasterns worry me a bit, and I'm trying to decide whether or not her hooves are playing into that and if they can change, but at her age her leg growth is done or nearly done so what you see is what you get. Even if the cosmetic structure of her bones can change, the way that they have grown is the way that they have grown. They might be weak. They might not be.

She does not look like a bad horse to me. She looks like a young horse who has not had proper care for a long time. Can she look better? Absolutely. Can she be ridable? Most likely. The question is how much time and money are you willing to put into her knowing that its possible that she might not be, and what will you do with her if she can't be ridden to the extent that you would like? I very much like her short back because it is optimal for heavier weight, but her legs are the most important factor here, I think.

NorthernMama 11-17-2013 05:47 PM

I'm confused...

You don't have the 21 yr old gelding, you looked at the 6 yr old gelding (the one in the pics?) and now are looking at trading the 21 yr old for a 2-4 yr mare from an abusive/ignorant home? So the 21 yr old instead of ending up with you, which is were the seller expects him to go, ends up in the home that doesn't know or care to know how to look after a horse? And whichever horse is in the pics above, I hope he is standing like that because they trained him to even though he doesn't look like an Arabian to me in those pics.

If you want to save the mare, all the power to you. She should be free though because she might cost a lot down the road. Hard to tell. Even with a PPE, you may end up with surprises.

I would never buy/acquire one horse to trade for another horse. Makes no sense to me except in the $world of hor$e$ where one person has exclusive access to a horse that someone else wants, or as a horsebroker/dealer.

All in all, nothing sounds great about what's happening here.

anndankev 11-17-2013 05:54 PM

The TWH belongs to the BO where my daughter works, she has been trying to sell him for some time. I work off board at a different barn, and recently had to put my horse down due to a tumor in his mouth. She has offered him to me.

I have not thought he is the horse I want for myself, but maybe could use him to trade to someone who might be a bit over-horsed and looking for a older, kid-safe horse.

The place with the mare had 2 other horses, both in similar condition. However, the people have only gotten the farm and the 3 horses recently and say they are all much better now than they were when they got them. The barn is in poor condition, but there are materials around and some evidence they are making improvements.

NorthernMama 11-17-2013 05:58 PM

Taking on a horse that you don't actually want and have every intention of selling/trading in the very near future is not responsible, IMO. Let the BO sell him directly to someone who wants him. Maybe you can help find the right home for him, but there is no need for the 21yr old to go through your hands as well. If the BO wants him to go to the barn where the mare is, then let the BO take him there. If you want the mare, then you take the mare as a completely separate deal.

Endiku 11-17-2013 06:17 PM

So are the owners of the mare unwilling to sell the mare for money? Seems a bit odd to me.

anndankev 11-17-2013 06:24 PM

OK, appreciate the replies while I was typing. I will definitely not think further about taking on this little mare. I can neither afford to 'save' her nor want to send the gelding there myself.

Leroy, is parked out for the pics. I declined the offer of him, then later mentioned the possibility of using him as a trade and she is OK with the idea. Probably not with this particular deal; however, it will not be developed further to even call her attention to it.

I am still thinking about the 6 yr old though. The TWH trade is not involved in that at all.

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