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kchfuller 07-21-2009 02:47 PM

questions... please read ... and answer :)
So I have a few breeding questions ... I don't plan to breed my mare but I wanted to learn ...

1. I have researched some and have noticed that some people tie the mares and shackle their back legs .. I assume this is so that they can't kick but some of the breedings I have seen the stallion is SO rough and what if she wants to get away or something hurts?

2. When you pay a stud fee, does that come with a guarantee pregnancy or is it hit or miss?

3. Have most people who breed gone to in vitro federalization?

Thanks all I can think of right now ... thanks!

themacpack 07-21-2009 03:03 PM

The method varies. If the mare is restrained, there are people on hand for a "supervised" breeding, these people would break things up if it got to the point of being a danger to the mare. Not all breeders, though, use restraint methods of that degree.
Most breeding contracts will have contingencies relating to the cover producing a pregnancy/live foal - but it is very important to read the contract and make sure that whatever guarantees you desire are included or seek a breeder who WILL give those guarantees.
Many registries require live cover--for those, AI is not an option. AI is becoming more prevelant, though, where allowed.

kchfuller 07-21-2009 03:05 PM

thanks themacpack :)

AlmagroN 07-21-2009 04:02 PM

1- yes. some mares will kick so restraining is for both a stud and mares safety. we personally dont, but we have a very well mannered mare who is used to it.

2- you dont pay your stud fee right away. for example, we just bred to a horse named Artiscape for $7,500. we have not paid anything other than what it cost to collect the semen, and to have her inseminated and stabled at their farm. we do not pay the $7,500 until we have a foal who is live and survived 24hours. if the mare miscarries, or something horrible happens (let us not think about that since our mares have given birth easily) we dont pay.

3- we try to breed naturally. unfortunately, as the stud we just bred our mare to, hes located 5 hours away AND he breeds to many mares. its easier for us to stable her there and be able to "breed" her as many times as needed to catch without having to worry if the stud can perform. and with a stud who is as nice as he is, you wouldnt want him to get hurt trying to breed naturally, so this is safer for him. so im not sure about other people, but id rather go naturally, but under certain circumstances, you just cant. a lot of how the breeding is is about preference too.

kchfuller 07-21-2009 04:13 PM

interesting... i just shutter when i see the shackles ect on the mare and if something went wrong i would hate to see her get tangled up. I have been around quite a few Stallions and yes they are well behaved but they are animals and they can act up - just scary for the mare to be "restrained" in my mind...


AlmagroN 07-21-2009 04:20 PM

*shug* its not too bad. theres really not much that could go wrong

Eastowest 07-21-2009 08:24 PM

I have managed live cover breedings for my own stallions and mares as well as stallions and mares owned by others, and I prefer not to use breeding hobbles if possible. I know that there are some situations where they are necessary.

I have bred 2-6 of my own mares per year (my own with an occasional outside mare) for the past 10 years, and not used hobbles or twitches, and have not had any problems during that time, nor an injured stallion.

There are a few key reasons, IMO--

1. The stallions are well trained, gentle stallions who respect the handler and do not rush or savage the mare, do not bite beyond courting-type nibbles, and are never allowed to be out of control. (What has worked for me is that during training for live cover, or any time during any live covers ever, if the stallion becomes unruly he is put away and the breeding session ends. The stallion quickly get the idea that we both want to get the mare bred, but that if he wants to breed the mare, he will act a certain way or its not going to happen.)

2. The mares are teased often and when possible kept in proximity to the stallion and the breeding activities, so that they see and hear everything, and are familiar with the stallion and the proccess long before they are actually bred.

I have also seen some bad wrecks with mares panicking while in breeding hobbles. It is a mistake IMO for a farm to assume that every mare is "hobble broke"-- when a mare first experiences that type of restraint she can react badly, and sometimes it is delayed reaction. She can easily scramble and fall and become tangled. A stallion can also get a foot or leg through the hobbles and the only thing worse than having one scrambling horse tangled in hobbles is have two horses tangled in them.

That said, I will again say that sometimes the situation warrants restraints. Having experienced breeding personnel (including knowing how to and not being afraid to jump in and immediately release-- or even cut apart, if necessary--the hobbles), and having a well trained stallion and an acclimated and well prepared mare (If it is decided that she will wear hobbles, she has had them on and has been worked with on how they feel BEFORE a stallion ever approaches her) go a long way toward keeping things safe and productive during a live cover breeding using restraints.

CheyAut 07-22-2009 02:38 AM

Almagron, are you breeding TBs? I ask because I've heard with TBs you don't pay until the foal is born, but in most breeds you pay up front. Just curious :) Oh wait, re-read your post and you're doing AI, so obviously not TBs. Interesting. I've never heard of anyone, other than TBs, not requiring the breeding fee up front. Those who do so but offer LFG, will typically allow rebreeding if the mare doesn't concieve or produce a live foal.

I also don't use hobbles when breeding. I breed by myself (meaning no help, but breeding minis is much easier to manage by yourself) so I tie up the mare and handle the stallion, but other than being tied by lead rope, she's not restrained.

AlmagroN 07-22-2009 07:08 AM

i breed my 2 standardbred mares for racing. ones a trotter, the other a pacer. we usually go natural, but last time the stud book is booked and closed, so you have to go AI or else you risk not even getting to the business lol.

kchfuller 07-22-2009 11:13 AM

thanks everyone, eastowest that was very interesting. I feel the same that you do but I wanted to know if I was just crazy ...

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