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-   -   Calling All Palomino/Genetics Experts! (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeds/calling-all-palomino-genetics-experts-33861/)

Scoutrider 08-14-2009 07:15 AM

Calling All Palomino/Genetics Experts!
 
Okay, first off, my question is, is it possible to have a registry eligible breeding stock palomino (If there's a more correct term, please tell me...)? Can there even be a breeding stock palomino, after the fashion of a breeding stock paint?

I know a gal, younger than me by several years, who claims to have saddle-broke and trained my pony when he was a stud (I don't know when he was gelded, but he has never acted studdy since I've had him). For several reasons, her story doesn't totally gel with me. She has correctly described him to me physically (right color and markings, one blue eye), but if I'd heard the behavioral stories she told before I bought him I would have let him pass in a heartbeat. (example: Claims of him being a horrible and dangerous biter; he's never so much as lipped me...) Also, going purely by what he has demonstrated to me in training sessions, he could not be "doing everything," as she described, by a long shot (just clarifying, not a behavioral long shot, a training/knowledge long shot). So, I take what she says with a large grain of salt.

Here's where my question comes in. This gal also claims that my pony is a registered Palomino. See my avvy pic for an idea of his coloration, that's an almost perfect color/marking match. I did (nicely) ask if she had any pics of him from when she knew him (my last horse was a total question mark history-wise. I honestly don't care what my new guy is, I'm just curious :D), as well as a registered name/copy of registry papers. I kinda doubt if I'll ever see either, but it got me curious about the genetics that go into registry eligible palominos, and whether I should take this claim any more seriously than the others.

Thanks!

CheyAut 08-14-2009 08:28 PM

You avatar is a bay?

A palomino is a chestnut horse with one copy of the cream gene.

Scoutrider 08-14-2009 09:51 PM

Yeah, I know what a palomino is, :wink:, and that's why this girl's statement threw me for a loop. Sorry, I should have been more specific. Scout couldn't be much farther from a palomino color-wise if he were coal black, lol. In a nutshell, I'm curious as to whether the offspring of 2 reg. palominos who fails to exhibit the palomino phenotype can be registered. Or, can the offspring of 2 reg. palominos possibly even fail to exhibit the palomino phenotype?

SoMuchManureSoLittleTime 08-15-2009 07:05 AM

You're horse had a 25 percent chance of being chesnut (bay). See below.

Your horse's sire and dam may both be registered palominos, but since the Palomino registries are a "color registry" and not a breed registry, I do not believe your horse would be registered as a palomino.

Coat Color Calculator

Shown below are the possible offspring coat colors and the probability of each determined using the given information of the sire and dam. Accuracy of the calculations are increase when more genetic information is known of the parents.

Sire Color: Palomino
Agouti:
aa, Aa, AA
Tobiano:
nn
Red Factor:
ee
LWO:
nn
Cream:
nCr
Sabino:
nn
Silver:
nn
Splash:
nn
Dun:
dd
Roan:
rr
Champagne:
nn
Gray:
gg
Dam Color: Palomino
Agouti:
aa, Aa, AA
Tobiano:
nn
Red Factor:
ee
LWO:
nn
Cream:
nCr
Sabino:
nn
Silver:
nn
Splash:
nn
Dun:
dd
Roan:
rr
Champagne:
nn
Gray:
gg

Details: Palomino
ee/Aa/nCr = 25.0000%
ee/AA/nCr = 12.5000%
ee/aa/nCr = 12.5000%


Details: Cremello
ee/Aa/CrCr = 12.5000%
ee/AA/CrCr = 6.2500%
ee/aa/CrCr = 6.2500%


Details: Chestnut
ee/Aa = 12.5000%
ee/AA = 6.2500%
ee/aa = 6.2500%

Details: All

ee/Aa/nCr = 25.0000%
ee/AA/nCr = 12.5000%
ee/Aa/CrCr = 12.5000%
ee/Aa = 12.5000%
ee/aa/nCr = 12.5000%
ee/AA/CrCr = 6.2500%
ee/AA = 6.2500%
ee/aa/CrCr = 6.2500%
ee/aa = 6.2500%

Offspring Color Probability

50.00% -
Palomino
25.00% -
Cremello
25.00% -
Chestnut

CheyAut 08-15-2009 01:50 PM

Actually two palominos can NEVER have a bay. They can ONLY have chesnut based offspring. If the foal doesn't get either parents' cream gene, it will be chestnut. If it gets cream from one, it will be palomino. If it gets cream from both, it will be cremello.

CheyAut 08-15-2009 01:52 PM

And I dont' know what you mean about being registered. If you're talking about the palomino registry, as far as I know they are a color registry that only registers palominos and those who look sorta palomino-ish (like haflingers who are light chestnut with flaxen manes/tails).

Scoutrider 08-15-2009 10:52 PM

Thanks so much for the replies! I kind of figured that the info this girl gave me on his breed was a tad, erm... off. Scout is nearly bay, and the only reason I say nearly is that there isn't any trace of black on his legs where there ought to be for a bay. My "color diagnosis" for him is seal brown. The girl's exact words were "He's a registered palomino, he won Grand Champion before." :? Until I see the "papers" that supposedly exist, I'm gonna assume that he's the mutt he probably is. Since none of her other claims are being validated by my experiences, I suppose there's no reason to assume the palomino bit is much more accurate.

Thanks again for the replies! :D

shesinthebarn 08-18-2009 09:37 PM

Just read an article in Horse and Rider that said the palomino registry is allowing all colours of horses to show at their shows now, so long as one parent is palomino - kinda interesting!


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