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APHA MOMMA 09-06-2009 01:25 AM

Bay with faint dorsal stripe?
 
Okay so I never really payed attention to it, but I have a registered paint who is breeding stock and listed as a bay. Well is it normal for bays to have a faint dorsal stripe? Scout also has (on his front legs) very faint black leg stripings, only like 2 above his black markings but they are there. What does that mean? Let me try and dig up a picture of his back, but I don't know if I have any close up of his legs but I can probably get some.

CheyAut 09-06-2009 01:31 AM

Yup, it's called countershading or false dorsals. Any color can have them, and some do an EXCELLENT job at mimicking dun!

APHA MOMMA 09-06-2009 01:35 AM

Haha, yah that is funny. I think he sire was a dun, or buckskin? What is the difference between those 2 anyways? If his father was dun, does that mean he has the dun gene? I am sorry, I suck at genetics and stuff.

Also I was trying to research it and there is something supposedly called a bay dun??? Lol, now I am really confused. Do you think he could be or he is just a bay mimicking the dun since his dorsal stripe doesn't go all the way to his withers but just over his rump instead?

CheyAut 09-06-2009 09:43 AM

Pictures would help ;)

Dun is caused by the dun gene. It lightens the coat and gives a true dorsal and often other primitive markings such as leg bars. Dun on black = grullo; dun on bay = bay dun, aka zebra dun, aka dun; dun on chestnut = red dun; dun on buckskin = dunskin; dun on palomino = dunalino...

Buckskin is caused by one copy of the cream gene on a bay horse. On a chestnut horse it would be palomino, on a black horse it would be smokey black (which may or may not appear as a normal black horse). Two copies gives perlino, cremello, and smokey cream, respectively. This does not cause true dorsals or primitive markings, it just dilutes the coat.

If his father truely is dun (I do NOT go by what they are registered as or what someone says they are, as that is very often incorrect), the it is POSSIBLE he is dun. If neither sire nor dam are true duns, then he cannot be. There are some true duns who's dorsal fades before the withers. There is also a dun test if you really wanna know, but the test is thought to be not 100% reliable due to the nature of it (hard to explain, but it's not like a test for cream or extension (black vs red)).

APHA MOMMA 09-06-2009 09:44 PM

1 Attachment(s)
WOW, you have been lotsa help. :) Thanks so much. His color doesn't mean anything to me, it was just that someone brought it up to me the other day and asked if he was a bay or dun, and I was like, uh, I am sure he is a bay, then they pointed out his dorsal stripe and the very very faint leg bars.

Okay so this is Scout's Dam.
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...sDam--16hh.jpg

Here is a few of his sire.
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...ses/Coosa4.jpg

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...ses/Coosa2.jpg

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...ses/Coosa1.jpg

Here is Scout as a yearling, very faint but you can see the line.
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...alStuff030.jpg

This is of Scout just the other day but I think you can see the line okay.
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o.../Scout/044.jpg

Another butt shot.
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o.../Scout/025.jpg

THE ATTACHED IMAGE IS THE ONLY ONE I HAVE THAT YOU CAN SEE THE 2 FAINT LEG BARS. EXCUSE HIS HOOVES, THIS IS WHEN HE WAS AT THE TRAINER'S AND HIS FEET ARE WAY BETTER NOW. ALSO HE IS LAYING DOWN BECAUSE THEY WERE TEACHING HIM TO YIELD TO PRESSURE AND HE DIDN'T LIKE IT SO HE LAID DOWN. I DID NOT LIKE THERE METHODS AT ALL THOUGH AND TOOK HIM OUT OF TRAINING EARLY EVEN THOUGH I PAID $600. GRRRR..

APHA MOMMA 09-06-2009 09:52 PM

Okay so I just looked up the sire and dam and it says the sire is "AQHA 2001 Buckskin 15.2 hypp N/N Bloodtyped BF" and the dam is "2002 APHA Black Buckskin Crypto Tobiano Informative BFtBST", not sure what all that means, lol. So I guess no dun in there?

Jessabel 09-06-2009 10:29 PM

My Thoroughbred has a false dorsal. I might have a picture somewhere...

CheyAut 09-07-2009 12:31 AM

I'll have to look at the photos when I get home (most are blocked at work). I'm not sure what all that means, either haha :) But duns are often registered buckskin, and buckskins are often registered as dun, so just by his parent's registered colors, couldn't tell ya ;) I'll look at this again Monday to see the photos :)

CheyAut 09-07-2009 01:05 PM

Ok I can see the photos now, he looks bay to me. Cutie :)

Cat 09-07-2009 02:47 PM

He looks like a bay to me. My bay mustang had the same faint leg barring and dorsal - it was all caused by counter shading.


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