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samc230 09-08-2009 03:30 AM

I am so torn, -- Follow up

I really like this horse, but IDK if he is too much for me. I don't know what is considered green, or broke, because so many people consider it differently. My trainer puts me on him and says he will be work, and that I'm a confident rider that can handle him. He's 5-6 ish, and hasn't been ridden in years. I know NOTHING about training a horse, and can only afford lessons on him, not board, expenses, AND training.

I'm going to get a video of us riding tomorrow, will you guys tell me what you think about us? How far along he looks, and what kind of horse I look capable of? I ride tomorrow at 2:30 pm, so I'll have a video up around 5:00 pm.

I've always heard green on green is terrible---but what is green?! I would call myself a VERY confident intermediate rider, I am not the best, but I know what I'm doing. I have no idea what to call him, some days he is great some he isn't.

I want my first horse, and I love him, but my heart is torn on if this is it or not.

samc230 09-08-2009 03:59 AM

Also, I would be working with my trainer on this horse 2-3x a week. Ugh, I can't sleep, I'll just let the video tomorrow speak for me.

Saskia 09-08-2009 04:12 AM

So what are you saying?

If you buy him you will not be able to afford to keep having lessons with your instructor?

To me, green is unexperienced in whatever the relevent things is.

You are inexperienced in training so I would say that yes you are green. Also, riding trained riding school horses and riding in a controlled environment is different to riding an untrained green horse in other circumstances. I'd ridden for about 3 years before I got my first horse and I think I learnt more riding that horse in 2 months than I had learnt in the three years. Riding schools generally (not always) tend to teach sort of the theory of riding. Like you learn how to sit on a horse and turn and learn what the aids are, but the minute you are put on a horse that doesn't automatically do all these things the student isn't much more than a beginner.

Is the nature of riding schools, and learning, and there is nothing wrong with it. Although if you are taking on a green horse that needs training then that could be dangerous. Its not just that either, but having a horse that you are not compatible with, or that you feel "helpless" (like you can't train it, or ride it out or do anything but just go around) is not fun. You very quickly get over that and then are stuck with a not so good and expensive situation.

I would not recommend a young, untrained horse for someones first horse even if they had been riding for years. Its a lot of work but there are people with good horses and generally good access to instructors or other knowledge sources that make it work.

On the other side, you have been riding this horse. You know it, and you know how you feel on it. Your instructor thinks you are capable of riding him as well. If you own this horse though you might want to do more than riding around. If you all you know is basic riding, maybe basic jumping or basic bending or whatever you were into then you won't be capable of teaching a horse what you do not know. I've seen so many parents buy a young, inexperienced kid a young horse with the notion that they can "learn together" but it rarely works out well.

It would be so much easier for you, and probably more fun, to get a horse that has experience in the discipline you want to enter. That way you could learn without having to teach the horse, and if you screwed up sometimes it wouldn't be so bad, because the horse would know what to do. That is the beauty of a trained horse.

Its up to you. If you love him that much get him but think about the opportunities you could be giving up if you were to get a well trained, reliable and competitive horse.

samc230 09-08-2009 04:29 AM

I want to do barrels and pole bending. Yes I can afford lessons on this horse and buy him, but I can't afford to send him off to a "trainer."

Maybe I am over reacting, this horse does not buck, rear, spook at anything, or bolt. He is totally fine getting tacked up and is a little clumsy on the lead, but a sweet horse. When I say green... I mean he doesn't really understad leg cues, he understands walk trot canter, but not any specific discipline. EX: I could have the reins sitting on my lap and day dreaming, and he would walk calmly until asked to do more. He just doesn't KNOW what a leg cue is, do I make sense??

I totally see what you are saying about the trained horse. I just feel as if I have no where else to go if I don't find something to work on/with... I know how to ride, how many times can I walk, trot, canter in a round pen until I can find my own horse to actually do something with? It's complicated and frustrating.

hollybee 09-08-2009 07:58 AM

i learnt to ride on very green & very spooky ponies from the age of 6 to the age of 11 (2 of which we owned and then sold on)
not my mum's fault - they're the ones i chose !

i fell off numerous times and got scared every now and again, but all of those little ponies that i learned on & schooled were then sold on to little girls who learned to ride on perfect ponies and had a lots of fun with them, and i loved the feeling that i'd done all of that

some people disagree with it, but i'm a good rider because of the choices i made,
i haven't got a perfect position (i slouch because i sit too relaxed), but personally i think it's better to experience horses like that because i feel it makes you a more experienced rider - because you have dealt with more problems.
You can only go so far with schoolmasters, and i think it would be a good opportunity for you.
If your instructor thinks you're ready for him then i'd go for it !

Saskia 09-08-2009 08:29 AM

He doesn't sound like a bad horse, and if your instructor has experience training and will help you train the horse I guess its not as bad as it could be. He seems pretty nice, and you really like him.

As far as Hollybee says, I agree to an extent. My first horse was an ex polocrosse pony, he was in his teens but he basically no flatwork/dressage/jumping experience and he was a bit of a nutter. He was way beyond my experience level - which had just been two lessons a week at a riding school. He would spook and shy and everything at first, and I would fall of. He would refuse basically every jump that we went near and at first I fell of. I got thrown into barrels and stuff, which hurt. My shoulder is actually still buggered from one of those barrel hitting episodes - there was a very impressive dent though.

The point is eventually I stopped falling of. I stuck on, I learnt when to pull the head up, I learnt how to move with this, and I learnt to keep my heels down. He injured himself, and while he was out I rode peoples horses who needed exercise, a crazy TB who was impossible and others. I learnt to actually ride a horse, to stay on and you know, not to die. I'm a much better rider for that today.

Still, there were so many times when I was at a show and my horse was spooking at the showjumps (we didn't have real jumps were we kept him) or at the white tape of the dressage arena, or just when he wouldn't flex, or wouldn't pay attention. And I looked at pretty all the other kids with their expensive, shiny, trained horses who were so easy to ride. They just got on and their horse did everything they asked. I knew these kids, I knew that was how they bought their horses, I knew they had new leather saddles while I had a synthetic, and they had floated out where I had ridden. I wanted so much to just be able to ride my horse, and compete without having to fight, or train, or say just say it was better than last time.

Yes, after experience and riding and training we got better, we won things and stuff, but by then I was ready to move onto my next horse. He was an "official" showjumper but was terrified of cattle. Although I loved at the end of a gymkana with PC or something we'd get to the sporting and all these kids would ride out on their 15hand QH or stockies in there sporting tack and i'd always beat them at barrel racing on my 16.1hand TB with a dressage saddle. I think they hated me. That horse could really turn.

Sorry i'm a terrible rambler - what I am getting is that its about what you want. Do you want to get somewhere or do you want to work on something? Do you want to learn about and get better at competing in bending and such, or do you want to learn about training?

I think with your instructors guidance and him being an alright horse you'll be okay, but I think you'll have a lot of work ahead of you.

Jessabel 09-08-2009 11:32 AM

I would keep in mind that confident is not the same thing as skilled. Are you comfortable on him? Can you control him and does he listen to you? Do you know what to do if he misbehaves or develops a bad habit?

As long as he has a quiet mind and is willing to learn and behave, I think you would be okay. It's good that you'll be working with a trainer, because I would strongly discourage you from buying an inexperienced horse if you weren't. Talk to your trainer about it. Ask her if she thinks you're ready to handle a greenie.

samc230 09-08-2009 01:11 PM

I'm not trying to learn how to train, that isn't my goal, but I do want to learn bending, flexing, etc. with him. Thank you Hollybee. Your post was very helpful!

Someone could shoot a gun off this horse. He just doesn't spook at anything. I am confident and I am skilled, I've ridden for about 10-11 years, had my share of falls and learning experiences. I can handle him when we ride, he is always a little friskier at first but after a couple rotations he is much better. He listens to me, but I will admit, at first he sees what he can get away with.

I was TOTALLY comfortable with him before I got on here and read up about leg cues, bending, flexing, and all sorts of specific training he DOESNT have and I have no idea how to give him, I guess I call him green because he isn't trained in any discipline. When actually, he is very rideable. He definitely is not a beginner horse by any means, but I don't feel scared when I'm on him.

I'll get the video today and we'll see how good me and him look LOL. Watch me look aweful after saying I am skilled rider!

sandy2u1 09-08-2009 01:23 PM

I am a little concerned that you said you would be unable to afford board or expenses. Do you mean horse expenses (shoes, feed, hay, etc)? If that's what you meant, then you shouldn't by this horse.

samc230 09-08-2009 01:54 PM


Originally Posted by sandy2u1 (Post 398466)
I am a little concerned that you said you would be unable to afford board or expenses. Do you mean horse expenses (shoes, feed, hay, etc)? If that's what you meant, then you shouldn't by this horse.

YES, I can afford everything for this horse. I would NEVER buy a lifetime commitment such as a horse without being able to pay for it. I cannot, however, afford his basic needs AND professional training. Hence, my dilemma.

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