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-   -   Maybe a bit overzealous... (http://www.horseforum.com/natural-horsemanship/maybe-bit-overzealous-36339/)

dashygirl 09-19-2009 10:29 PM

Maybe a bit overzealous...
 
...but I wanted to share anyways. I found this on Youtube.


JustDressageIt 09-20-2009 12:34 AM

I give the editing and music 10/10.
I give the concept a 0/10; there is a lot of misinformation and half-truths shown in the video.
:)

roro 09-20-2009 12:43 AM

Well-edited, but as JDI said full of lies and "hippie horsemanship" per say. There are a lot of talented, in harmony horse and rider duos that use bridles (gasp!) and a lot of uneducated amateurs trying to make their horse gallop bareback and make their backs sore from poorly sitting the trot. I guess there are two sides to both stories.

smrobs 09-20-2009 12:48 AM

It's a nice concept but I just don't like when people like that group all riders who use bits, tack, etc. in with all those people who misuse bits, tack, etc.

I would really like to see him rope a cow for doctoring with no bit or saddle. LOL.

TroubledTB 09-20-2009 01:08 AM

I just want to know why can't you have both? My hand raised mare is ten and I have cantered around naked arms out, because it's cool, we all know that, but I specifically trained her english and also choose to ride in traditional english tack when I want a more structured work out. Why does it always seem you are either with us or them? Why can't there be people who can do it all? I also find it confusing that western riding has made a complete 180 on the bitting agenda. It wasn't long ago that a large curb bit with no direct rein and a chain under the chin was standard for many people who rode or started horses. Now they are claiming we are wrong for using any bit at all? The harshest bits I have seen are western bits, and those double bridles are for Grand Prix horses who need that much communication in order to understand the complicated routine they have prepared for. You would never stick that in a three year olds mouth, but a mullen mouth slight ported curb bit 3 inch shank with a chain under the chin is fine for a three year old? I think it was a bit biast at pointing the finger at english riders for their abusive tactics, and I just seems like a low blow from an insecure discipline in horsemanship. If you are truly revolutionary than you shouldn't need a following gained from bashing the competition, but by actions that prove your ideals. Some of the people did seem to show actions that proved the value of their technique, but I am not one sided as to speak of either as being a perfect discipline. I also saw some cinematographic scenes from various movies that gave us a fantasy ideal of what horsemanship can be, and not to say we shouldn't aspire to that if it is truly our goal, but it is also safe to say that the child in the Black Stallion did not truly tame that horse on the beach, he was an actor and I am sure the scenes took many takes.

Btw kudos for figuring out you were using to much bit, but don't criticize us who rode in a snaffle all along.

ridergirl23 09-20-2009 10:44 AM

urge, i have seen alot of videos like this and it always bugs me! i taught my first horse how to just be ridden with a rope around his neck, we jumped and everything... now i just taught my second horse how to do that... she is a third level dressage horse I(haha although i cant to the third level movements yet!) but i also ride her in a snaffle bridle, the bit is the second fatest in the store (the fatest was to thick she couldnt close her mouth completely) she is happy both ways, the bridle is just another way of sending messages to the horse, small little messages, not like the ones in that video! but i do know a person that rides at first level like me and she will randomly choose to use a double bridle some days, which really makes me mad, because she pretends to know everything, and is all 'oh i use a double bridle, im so good' and it really makes me mad because when she rides her horse and gets mad she will yank on the horses mouth, not just a little pop to tell them no, a bunch of huge yanks that makes the horse freak out because shes pulling on all four reins!!! and the horse is very good, he just makes a little rear (if you can call it that) and accepts...but he doesnt trust her hand, sso he will neer be happy going into the bridle for her, but when a horse does trust somebodys handand and know they will not be hurt from it thery are happy.

dashygirl 09-20-2009 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroubledTB (Post 407181)
If you are truly revolutionary than you shouldn't need a following gained from bashing the competition, but by actions that prove your ideals. Some of the people did seem to show actions that proved the value of their technique, but I am not one sided as to speak of either as being a perfect discipline.

Very well said, I completely agree. Unfortunately though I think that this is a great marketing tactic to latch onto those insecure horse people who get the "nice, warm and fuzzy" feeling from watching this.

As far as the attack on English riding, I don't know if that was intentional...maybe the person who made the video rode English and didn't take into consideration that Western has just as many issues pertaining to bits as English -- there is no perfect discipline (haha although this video may argue otherwise). I've seen many cowboys break colts in curb bits, *shivers* it's reather morbid to watch the youngster dazed and confused as he's being spurred and yelled into submission.

I'm glad (well, and I knew) that I wasn't the only one who found this ridiculous, and roro I like your term "hippie horsemanship", very clever.

And smrobs, yes, experienced horse people know and understand that at times saddles and bits are absolutely necessary! ;)

Spirithorse 09-20-2009 12:04 PM

While I don't agree with the slam on double bridles, the video shows amazing horsemanship, especially from Honza and his horse Gaston. Those two have a truly special bond, it's so deep I can only hope to have that someday. I've seen them in person years ago and I was blown away by what Gaston would do for Honza. The video shows the horrors of the show world (but not by every person) and how humans will do anything for a ribbon. It's really sad. Overall, good video......it has some hard truths in it that a lot of people don't want to admit.

MacabreMikolaj 09-20-2009 12:23 PM

Very cool video, but I agree, I'm simply sick and tired of videos like this. They make every "non-natural" rider out to be this inhumane monster. I realize they're trying to send a message, and that's fine, but seriously, how dare you bash a beautiful Dressage horse team by showing pictures of a DIFFERENT team using force? That's just so ignorant. I'm sick of these videos trying to say you can't have any of those things if you don't do it THIS way.

I do agree with you there SpiritHorse - the video DOES portray some very good examples of the horrors show horses have to endure in the name of ribbons. It really sickens me what can be considered abuse by some, and yet reefing on your horses mouth and repeatedly smacking him with a crop over a jump is seen as perfectly normal. Some people DO need those reins ripped right out of their hands and made to stand on the ground until they learn how to actually respect a horse. I'm just tired of them making it sound like ALL riders.

kevinshorses 09-20-2009 04:41 PM

[quote=TroubledTB;407181]I also find it confusing that western riding has made a complete 180 on the bitting agenda. It wasn't long ago that a large curb bit with no direct rein and a chain under the chin was standard for many people who rode or started horses. Now they are claiming we are wrong for using any bit at all? The harshest bits I have seen are western bits, and those double bridles are for Grand Prix horses who need that much communication in order to understand the complicated routine they have prepared for. You would never stick that in a three year olds mouth, but a mullen mouth slight ported curb bit 3 inch shank with a chain under the chin is fine for a three year old?


I ride western and train quite a few horses and I wouldn't put a curb bit on any horse unless he was ready for it nor would most of the people that I know. I don't think that western riders have done a 180 on biting. I have books from 60 years ago that start horses in snaffles and move along as the horse progresses. A large curb bit with a chain under the chin is not standard for starting horses but it is ideal for finished horses. I think you don't understand western riding as well as you think you do. Educate yourself before you rant next time.


As far as the video clip, I think that being able to ride your horse bridless is great. The people in the cli[p are world renowned horseman that took years to develope the feel and know how to train thier horse like that and probably used bridles to teach those movements. Clinicians and trainers demonstrate how well thier methods work or how well thier horses are trained by riding bridleless but they are not saying that riding with a bridle is wrong or cruel. No bit is harsh if used correctly. You can hurt a horses mouth worse with a snaffle than you can with a full spade bit. It's the hands on the riens that make bits harsh.


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