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Sharpie 02-15-2014 12:04 AM

Hoof Jam
 
I am curious what people think of the idea of the hoof wall being 'jammed' up relative to where it should be and the idea that it will 'let down' with proper trimming and sole support. I was particularly thinking of comments about relieving that 'credit card' space at the quarters and having to repeat that as the wall relaxed and grew or just 'came down' of it's own accord after, necessitating a repeat of the trimming in that area sooner than the rest of the hoof and visually resulting in a straighter/more level coronary band in that quadrant. I also seem to recall the idea coming up in another horse with regard to ripples in the toe? Sorry I can't attribute these to the folks who posted them, but I can't really remember which threads they were.

I understand the idea of a sunken coffin bone relative to the coronary band or, another way to put it, the coronary band being jammed up higher on the leg when the sole loses concavity and support to hold the bony column high in the hoof capsule. Do you think this can happen in just parts of the foot like just the quarters, or toe, or heels? Or is it imaginary?

loosie 02-15-2014 01:18 AM

I read the subject line & thought you meant infection, as in 'toe jam'! ;-)

Yes absolutely particular areas can be 'jammed' due to mechanical imbalance. You often see 'jammed' quarters, due to farriers commonly trimming 'flat' when there should be an arch there. As for credit card arch, depends I reckon & IME that's probably about right for most, some need more or less - I just 'listen' to the sole. As for trimming more often, trimming the hooves often enough to *keep them in functioning form is best, rather than waiting for overgrowth before 'correcting'.
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Patty Stiller 02-15-2014 09:22 AM

Hairlines at the quarters do not jam upward because the farrier didn't place an arch in the wall the bottom. That is not the cause.
They jam because the heels are run too forward undef the foot, causing the upward forces from the ground to be directly under the jammed area and heel bulbs lacking support far enough rearward.

Unsupported hairline at heel goes down while the loaded hairline above the 'run forward' heel buttress goes up. simple.

If they jammed because the lower edge of the foot was left flat , then all horses with shoes would have jammed quarters and they do not.
The ones who have the heels trimmed correctly do not jam the hairline, the ones with overgrown or under run heels do. It is very predicable.

I have "un jammed" quarters all the time in shod horses , with the lower edge of the foot flat, simply by trimming the heels back where they belong and loading the back of the frog. Whether shod or barefoot .

Just look at any foot you see with jammed quarters, where the heels have nt been corrected yet there heel buttress will be directly under the highest part of the hairline jam, every time. it is extremely predictable. The reason barefoot trimmers fix the jams is it because they arched the quarter on the bottom. It is because the trimmed the heels. But they don't even realize how they they fixed it . :wink:

Patty Stiller 02-15-2014 09:26 AM

As to amount of arch in the quarters of a bare foot the amount depends on the shape (arch) of the sole in that foot. But really it is just to help the foot in its natural process of breaking the wall away there anyway .
ln shoes the foot needs to be FLAT to prevent any pressure points from the nailed on solid object.

Sharpie 02-16-2014 01:10 PM

Patty, could you post or link to a couple of correctly shod feet? I used to think I had some idea what I was looking for, but now I think I'm more confused than ever. :wink:

Do you think that a horse could have a coronary band higher than it should be in parts of the foot other than where the heels are under where the quarters should be? Maybe heels and quarters, or even the whole foot? Or do you tend to see it just in that one location where the heels have run under the quarters? I think I can easily imagine what you're talking about as it seems to be a common issue.

Would you consider this an example in the toe or simply a variation of normal given the conformation? The medial side appears higher than the lateral side (he toes out in the rear)
http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps3834eb97.jpg
Used my picture as I didn't want to steal someone else's. Theirs were more dramatic though.

I'll see if I can re-find the article I was reading that discussed this. It seems like the more I read, the more questions I have.

ETA: It might have been this one, http://www.hoofrehab.com/DistalDescent.htm if not, I think it was one of his.

Chevaux 02-16-2014 01:44 PM

Subbing...

loosie 02-16-2014 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patty Stiller (Post 4769418)
Hairlines at the quarters do not jam upward because the farrier didn't place an arch in the wall the bottom. That is not the cause.
...Unsupported hairline at heel goes down while the loaded hairline above the 'run forward' heel buttress goes up. simple.

Yes, 'run forward' heels no doubt create about the biggest, most chronic unhealthy pressure in that area, but I don't agree that overlong walls *wherever* on the foot don't also do this. You frequently see it happen at the toes, even sometimes on one side if the foot's been badly balanced, so why not at the quarters??

I think degree & chronic-ness(is that a word??) of the imbalance is a big factor, which is why I think *just* leaving the hoof wall flat at the base, if hooves are otherwise well balanced, doesn't necessarily cause it. Also on a shod hoof, I don't think there is the *extra* pressure at the quarters, because the inflexible shoe distributes the weight around the wall. I have seen the most 'jamming'(or could call it sinking) at the toes on shod horses with heels wedged or high. - And run forward heels also commonly go along with that too.

princessfluffybritches 02-17-2014 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loosie (Post 4779033)
Yes, 'run forward' heels no doubt create about the biggest, most chronic unhealthy pressure in that area, but I don't agree that overlong walls *wherever* on the foot don't also do this. You frequently see it happen at the toes, even sometimes on one side if the foot's been badly balanced, so why not at the quarters??

I think degree & chronic-ness(is that a word??) of the imbalance is a big factor, which is why I think *just* leaving the hoof wall flat at the base, if hooves are otherwise well balanced, doesn't necessarily cause it. Also on a shod hoof, I don't think there is the *extra* pressure at the quarters, because the inflexible shoe distributes the weight around the wall. I have seen the most 'jamming'(or could call it sinking) at the toes on shod horses with heels wedged or high. - And run forward heels also commonly go along with that too.


(what Loosie said ) I think that jamming can have several causes. And jamming should alert you to find out what's causing it. In my horse's case my horse had jamming on one side because the farrier decided that the one wall should be higher than the other. Once the hoof was balanced and the quarters had a good roll on them, the growth lines on the hoof lowered back to their proper position in a matter of days.

Patty Stiller 02-17-2014 12:30 PM

Quote:

Do you think that a horse could have a coronary band higher than it should be in parts of the foot other than where the heels are under where the quarters should be?
VERY rarely.
Quote:

Maybe heels
You will not see the coronary band at the very back of the heel with an upward arch. It is always a bit in front of the heels and exactly where depends on where the ends of the heels were on the ground. .
Quote:

or even the whole foot?
That would be a foundered, sunk bone foot as in the article you linked. Founder is a whole 'nuther beast from the hairline distortion what we are talking about here.


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