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Lucara 09-26-2009 09:53 PM

Using a flash.
 
Okay so I've noticed that a lot of bridles come with a flash along with a cavesson. What is the point of having the flash? I user stand it keeps the mouth closed (right? lol) but isn't it kind of over kill with a cavesson?

Why would or wouldn't you use a flash?

Ne0n Zero 09-26-2009 10:06 PM

I don't use one because Beau doesn't need one, and even if I did, I'd keep it loose.
I don't really see the point in them either.. if my horse disliked the bit enough to open his mouth to evade it, I'd be trying different bits.

Snaffle 09-26-2009 10:08 PM

I would use a flash to get more control of the horse.
I wouldn't use a flash to force the horse's mouth closed.

kitten_Val 09-26-2009 10:22 PM

My trainer is insisting on getting one to keep her mouth shut. So far I successfully turn down her efforts to make me get one. Lol!

MIEventer 09-27-2009 12:44 AM

This is a copy and paste from a different thread that was about Flash Nosebands. It's a great read.

~~~~

I just wanted to share this, I really enjoyed it and I highly respect the great Jim Wofford and his words.

This is from the March 09 Practicle Horseman.

~~


Is It Art? Or Violence?
Tips from the FEI rule book on why coercive training equipment doesn't work.


My therapist tells me that if I share my issues with you, I will feel better. So - here goes:

Can anybody around here ride in anything other than a flash noseband that has ben pulled so tight it leaves a depression in the horse's nosewhen the noseband is released?

Do you have ANY idea how much I hate tight nosebands? Doesn't that make you doubt yourself and your training methods just a little?

It should.

I learned a long time ago that art ends where violence begins. I do not see how we can be proud of our art as riders when the way our nosebands are adjusted amounts to daily mini-torture sessions for our horses who we purport to love and care for so much.

When your horse opens his mouth or croses his jaw, do you think, "Uh-oh, I'm going to lose dressage points this weekend, I'd better clamp his mouth shut"? OR do you recognize that your horse is exhibiting a sign of tesntion?

This means his training must continue to emphasize basic, calming work. If he is obviously nervous at the bottom levels of the training scale, you are not going to have much luck with his collected trot.

For those of you who have not been taking notes after your dressage clnics, the Training Scale goes - Rhythm, Looseness, Contact, Impulsion, Straightness, Collection.

Because I was born in a different century, I was raised on Gen. Decarpentry's advice - "Calm, Forward. Strait." I still prefer it because it emphasizes calmness before anything else. It is difficult to teach a horse anything when he is tense, and if you do teach him anything, chances are it will be the wrong thing.

Whichever way you think of it, you have to realize that your horse is not yet calm when he shows resistance in his mouth. If he is not yet calm, then any further demands on him will result in more tension and flawed results.

It is as simple as that. If you want flawed results, go ahead and ask for colection before your horse is relaxed. This is a pretty certain way to produce a horse who needs his mouth strapped shut.

A tight noseband is a vain attempt to disguise the fact that your horse is not ready for the things you are asking him to do.


Where was I berfore I started this rant? Oh yeah, classical equitation. I reread the "Object and General Princibles of Dressage" in the International Equestrain Federation dressage rule book the other day, and was pleased with how meaningful it is, and how clear.

For example, Article 401 of the rule book says, "By virtue of a lively impulsion and suplenes ofthe joints, free from the paralyzing effects of resistance, the horse obeys willingly and without hesitation and responds to the various aids calmly and with precision, displaying a natural and harmonious balance both physically and mentally."

Think about that for a second: When horses stiffen and resist, their musculature becomes paralyzed for the duration of that resistance. If your horse is tense in his topline while jumping, he wil be slow with his knees and hang his legs. If you are an eventer, or want to become one, then you have to realize that dressage permeates everything we do with horses.

Article 401 aditionally states, "The object of dressage is the development of the horse into a happy athlete through harmonious education. As a result, it makes the horse calm, suple, loose, and flexible, but also confident, attentive and keen, thus achieving perfect understanding with his rider."

I give the FEI a lot of unsolicited constructive criticism in this column, most of it well deserved and desperately neeed. However, I would be the first to admit that this is a lovely description of what we are supposed to be looking for in the training of our horses.

Finally, the rule book states that a hors should be allowed to "quietly chew the bit." You often find this expression in the source documents of dressage, and it is always spoken of approvingly as a trait to be developed and encouraged.

There is a very good reson for encouraging this trait in your horse: When he chews quietly on the bit, his mouth is soft and mobile. When his mouth is soft and mobile, it is a good bet that his jaw is relaxed. When his jaw is relaxed, his topline is through and his haunches are active. When your horse exhibits these traits, you are wel on your way to producing the "happy athlete" mentioned in the rule book.

If all this is true, then tell me how in the world your horse is going ot chew softly on anything when your flash is so tight that he can't move his jaw at all?

I laugh to myself when I walk past a competator getting ready to go into the dressage arena at an event and see her groom frantically stuffing sugar cubes into the side of the horse's mouth. At some tim einthe psat that rider has been told that a trained horse should show signs of foam on the sides of his mouth, so she is going to produce that foam by whatever means.

She doesn't even notice that her poor creature has his mouth so firmly clamped shut that he cannot chew anything. If US Dressage Team coach Bengt Ljungquist were alive, he would be spinning in his grave.

If that is your training practice, why not just go ahead and Super Glue your horses's teeth together.....that'll keep him from gaping his mouth, and it will fix that nasty teeth grinding at the same time. Just kidding.....really. Blame it on my therapist - she told me I need to rant more.

Anyway, the best way to get a good score in your dressage test is to give the judge what she wants. Judges are trained to judge according to the rule book, and the rule book says your horse should be free from the paralyzing effect of resistance.

Maybe if you concentrate more on correct training, your scores will go up. It will take a little while longer, but you will get a thrll out of your horse's improved performance. That thrill when you realize your horse is starting to understand is what is what sperarates competitors from horseman.

When we get the feeling that our horse is improving, the color of the ribbon pales in significance.

Competitions are a test of our progress as horsemen, they are not an end in themselves.


However, I don't want you to think that I live and train only in a world of theory. Riding and training horses in the real world is a complicated business, and things can get confusing sometimes. Was it Emerson who said that a sign of maturity is the ability to believe two mutually exclusive things at the same time?

If that is so, then we need to let our thinking about horses mature. What do I mean?

Let me give you an example : I firmly believe that we must train our horses according to classical principles. This means long-term systematic, progressive training that never disturbs the tranquility of the horse. At the same time, I also believ that you can't have good hands if you don't have enough bit.

See what I mean about opposed ideas? Yet both are true, and we need to apply both of them.

The process of training horses in the real world finds us suspended between these two oposed concepts, and we have to continually balance them. If I emphasize classical principles to th exclusion of all else, I may get into a situation wher I endanger my horse and my student, because if your horse is lacking in training, you will need some kind of gadget bit, which wil then be, short-term, enough bit.

At the same time, every time I use a gadget bit or overtighten a noseband, training comes to a stop.

My horse will not truly improve until I do away with gadgets and domination and return to quiet, consistent, patient training.

It can be an enormous help to your training once you understand and accept that your horse is an incredibly sensitive creature.

I often wonder why people think they have to kick and pull a horse who can fel a fly land on his neck.

Intsead of worrying about your dressage score, I want you to concentrate on teaching your horse to calmly respond to invisible aids.

Reiner Klimke, the legendary multiple gold medal winer said "My horses are not my slaves, they are my friends." Teach your horse to respond calmly and correctly, and he will be your friend forever.

Lucara 09-27-2009 12:58 AM

So theres really no purpose for them except to clamp their mouth shut and hide faults in their training?

Lily of the Valley 09-27-2009 01:18 AM

I've always thought they were ugly and unnecessary, so I'd never use one. Like almost everything, I'm sure they have their uses and purpose, but I'd like to say I'd never use one on a horse. I suppose, however, there could be some extreme case where it was necessary if all else failed.

Nutty Saddler 09-27-2009 01:43 AM

Like most pieces of tack a Flash is often abused and missunderstood

Yes a Flash is used to assist in keeping a horses mouth closed - but it should not be tight.

A Flash is also used to help with the position of the bit in a horses mouth.

The Flash noseband originally developed for an English showjumper who was called ' Flash ' . He needed to ride his horse in a drop noseband and a standing martingale - as you should not fit a standing martingale to a Drop but to a Cavesson the Falsh noseband was made to serve both purposes.

There is nothing wrong with a Flash noseband, just the idiots who fit it incorrectly - and you are always going to get people like that.

To those that say that you should not need one , they are partly correct , but not every horse is perfect and not everyone has hours and hours every day to train their horse .

I ride one of my horses in a flash noseband - I like the look of it on my mare, I do not have it tight - do not use it to clamp her mouth shut but to help with the position of the bit in her mouth.
Ingrid is happy in her mouth with a simple snaffle and a Flash, I am happy with the bit/bridle that we have so there is no problem.

o0hawaiigirl0o 09-27-2009 04:34 AM

I'm soon going to be using a flash on my horse.
Before deciding on that, I had her teeth checked by our vet and I am learning to be lighter with my hands. She is in a very mild bit, but occasionally opens her mouth to avoid the bit. I feel like that is cheating because she is "escaping" instead of simply yielding to the pressure. I do not intend to clamp her mouth shut. I just want her to accept my aids and not avoid them.

Spirithorse 09-27-2009 03:37 PM

Yes, flashes are really designed to tie the horse's mouth shut. People can say they help this or that, but that's basically what is happening....the horse is having his mouth tied shut. It's nonsense really. If the horse is displaying some kind of negative behavior in the bridle then it's up to the rider to FIX THE PROBLEM, not just mask it by tieing his mouth shut.


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