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Farrier took a chunk out of hoof wall

11K views 54 replies 11 participants last post by  SueC 
#1 ·
Storytime :)
So I had my farrier out last weekend and he ended up digging out what I thought was a really big chunk of the hoof wall. My mare has had a small crack in the white line that refused to heal/grow out for a couple months now. She had the same thing on the other front foot, but with regular cleaning it closed and grew out fine.
The last time I had my farrier out she had come up a little bit lame and we discussed various possibilities, but basically came to the conclusion that it was probably an abscess or bruise and would sort itself out (ie: bruise would take time to heal and an abscess would eventually rupture or he could dig it out). After that trim she has not been noticeably lame, trots out fine and riptears around her pasture quite happily.
But this crack won't close.
So he ended up cutting it right back up to where it had obviously abscessed a bit and must have just kept reinfecting itself. Apparently he has to do this on a lot of horses, mainly on the toes, and other than being aesthetically unappealing, doesn't seem to bother them.
My mare was falling asleep on him as he was digging this out so obviously its not too tender.
I spent a week soaking it everyday to clean it out and it seems to be healing nicely. Thankfully we finally seem to be headed into some dryer weather so I'm hoping her feet will start hardening up.

Just curious as to where the interior hoof starts getting more sensitive?
(The red is NOT blood, it's the antiseptic he squirted on after)
 

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#2 ·
Oh boy that foots looking alittle rough...:-(

I have seen this done quite a bit actually where farriers dig out a lot of the hoof if there is a crack or thrush or something amazes me they don't get tender!!!

I would definitely think and look into some hoof supplements.. smartpak.com has alot of great choices for every part of a horse!!!:) it will help harden and make the hoof over all more healthy!!!
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#3 ·
I've been doing a little bit of nutrition research and am planning on doing a a hay/pasture analysis to see if there is anything missing. She is currently on a little bit of feed (Hoffmans horse ration), but really only a handful a day just so she gets a onceover daily by my barn manager.
My farrier actually thinks her feet are really good otherwise, its just with how wet the climate is, once something gets in it is very hard to eradicate.
But yes, feeding for the hoof is an excellent recommendation, thankyou! I definitely believe that like peoples nails and hair, the feet (and coat) are a good indicator of diet/health.
 
#5 ·
Where it is sensitive/bleeding depends a bit on where the tissues are in the horse. Which I am sure seems like an odd thing to say, so let me explain.

In a horse that has foundered (but not perforated or come through the sole), the tip of the coffin bone, with it's sensitive tissue and blood supply will be about an inch forward of the tip of the frog and milimeters from the ground as the horse is standing. In a different, non-foundered horse with a good thick sole, that same tip of the coffin bone might be two centimeters off the ground and well protected, but in other flat-footed horses it's somewhere in between. In a horse with chronic white line separation at the toe, the tip of the coffin bone might actually have dissolved from chronic pressure, so what's left is further back (towards the heel) than you would expect.

If there is a chronic issue, the foot will try to protect the area by growing more tissue and laying it down as armor, so the actual sensitive tissues may be deeper/farther back than you would normally expect compared to a healthy foot.
 
#6 ·
This looks like there was a case of whiteline disease going on under the hoof wall. and the farrier did the right thing to open it up. Whiteline disease is a fungal infection that will not heal unless opened up to the air. The resected area is not a in a weight bearing area of the foot and should not be a problem as it grows back down. and should be no problem in itself. The tissues underneath will quickly harden up.
BUT a bigger issue is that obviously horrible trim! (not the resected area, the whole foot) The heels look like they are WAAY too long and badly run under the foot, and thew toe is badly flared both should have been taken care of in the trim. The distortion on the heels likely contributed directly to the crack in the first place. A photo of the sole of the foot would be very revealing.....
 
#8 ·
Storytime :)
Just curious as to where the interior hoof starts getting more sensitive?
First you have the Stratum Externum of the hoof wall, which is what you see when you look at the outside of a hoof. Beneath that, there is the Stratum Medium and the Stratum Internum. These three structures make up the hoof total thickness of the hoof wall - you can sometimes see these from the underside of a foot with a fresh trim, depending on how much the farrier dressed the foot. Next is the White Line, where nails are driven - this also can be seen between the hoof wall and sole from the underside of the foot. After all of that, the sensitive structures such as the laminae, frog & sole coruims (cell producing layers), digital cushion, collateral cartilages, coffin and navicular bone, tendons, etc are in there. :)
 
#10 ·
Yep, if there is 'seedy toe/WLD' cracks, no matter how minor & how well trimmed the hoof, don't tend to grow out & may get worse. Seedy can be insidious & look like nothing on the surface but may be deep & severe once you start digging. So it can be virtually impossible to treat the infection effectively without resecting.

But I agree with Patty & co that it appears bad mechanics/trimming is also a huge issue here. Is this a new farrier for your horse? Is it a new horse who has had terrible feet?
 
#11 ·
Thanks for the input! I was looking at her feet and wondering if the heels were too long. She has only had 3 trims with my new farrier since we moved barns (I was NOT happy with the hoof care she was receiving at my old barn, which was one of many reasons we moved, and has probably contributed to her feet now). We are both adjusting to the climate - she basically used to self-trim on hard Alberta ground and we have had all sorts of issues since we moved to BC last year.
Patty Stiller - could you describe more what you mean by the toe being flared? I don't have pictures of the sole, but to me it looked like he had rasped the wall right back to the sole all the way around.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for the input! I was looking at her feet and wondering if the heels were too long. She has only had 3 trims with my new farrier since we moved barns (I was NOT happy with the hoof care she was receiving at my old barn, which was one of many reasons we moved, and has probably contributed to her feet now). We are both adjusting to the climate - she basically used to self-trim on hard Alberta ground and we have had all sorts of issues since we moved to BC last year.
Patty Stiller - could you describe more what you mean by the toe being flared? I don't have pictures of the sole, but to me it looked like he had rasped the wall right back to the sole all the way around.
I don't think her heels are long. Look at the sole. That will tell you if it is evenly trimmed. also a wide shot to see the angle of shoulder compared to hoof matters. I don't know how someone can say that is a bad trim with the only obvious thing we see is the missing chunk.
 
#13 ·
heels are long and under-run. the toe is flared forward a bit more than it should be. i see a smidgen of jamming at the coronary band above the quarters, but it isn't severe (yet).

three trims with the new farrier, if they are good, should have brought her heels back more than they currently are. discuss with your farrier next time they are out, before they start trimming your horse, that you want those heels brought back and the toe shortened. a small amount of relief to the bottom edge of the walls at the quarters will help with that slight upward curve to the coronary band too.

i highly suggest checking out Pete Ramey's website. he is IMO one of the best sources of info for a healthy barefoot hoof. Pete Ramey Hoof Rehab home. Horse hoof maintenance and care.
 
#14 ·
Need better/more pics if you want a hoof critique(see link in signature below for tips). As the pic isn't taken quite squarely, it's also a little deceiving, maybe not quite as it appears.... so green lines I've marked are only to give you a rough idea of how flared forward his foot is.
 

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#15 ·
The sensitive area would be in the secondary lamellea.
The sensitive area under the hoof wall begins in the "sensitive" or "dermal" laminae, not the secondary laminae. I believe you may be confusing the terms "secondary laminae " and "sensitive laminae".

I do understand that English is not your first language.
I teach hoof anatomy and I will help you.

The "Secondary" laminae are PART of the primary laminae.

The primary laminae are made up of "insensitive" or "epidermal" and "Sensitive" or "dermal" .

The insensitive laminae go from the hoof wall inward and the sensitive laminae go from the bone out. They connect together.

Both kinds of primary laminae have their own "secondary" laminae which are more TINY laminae too small to see with the naked eye, that go AROUND each primary laminae. There are about 100 secondary laminae around each of the 600 primary laminae.

(references: Dr Chris Pollitt, University of Queensland, Australia , and Dr Robert Bowker, Michigan State University. )
 
#17 ·
Oh Amigo, I had a quick squiz at that article you attached & Patty's explanation above reminded me, noticed a diagram in it, with a cut out of hoof wall showing laminae, that appeared to be labled wrongly, or incompletely - perhaps that's why you're thinking secondary laminae.
 
#20 ·
It was Christy West who wrote the piece so she must stand for the anatomy names, some which are not even used in the Swedish Anatomy of the Hoof.
I have forgotten my Latin but as I recall some of those names were not mentioned in my old German/English Translation "The Art Of Shoeing" where much Latin was used.:wink:

Back to the topic and for the common horse owner:
the sensitive area should be just inside the lamell line. if in dought....drill a hole and see how far you can come before he gives you a kick, when your plastered against the wall then you know you hit the sensitive area :lol:
 
#21 ·
with a cut out of hoof wall showing laminae, that appeared to be labled wrongly, or incompletely - perhaps that's why you're thinking secondary laminae.
I looked at hwr drawing and it was not incorrect, it was incomplete. The large BLUE laminae in her drawing is the sensitive primary laminae. (dermal laminae) Basically anything that lies from their tips inward toward the bone is going to be sensitive.


amigoboy when searching anatomy on the internet, if you can look for anything from Dr Chris Pollitt, Dr Robert Bowker, or Dr Andrew Parks, you will find great information with correct English terminology.
 
#28 ·
thanks for the info.
Buzzed trough some of their writings, one can see how it would support the trimming method thinking for some.
The more i read the more I feel these Phd´s, expert in their field, seem to be very Mico Sighted, staring themselfs blind at the hoof and not looking at the horse as a whole or the leg and it´s function with the hoof as a shock absorbing systom.
Sometimes you caint see the forest for the trees.
 
#24 ·
Interesting you mention Drs Pollitt & Bowker in one breath on that subject Patty, as there are some big differences in their theories. ;-) No 'grocery bags' in Pollitt's stuff, for one!:lol:

Yeah, just glanced over that article & diagram just looked wrong but didn't pay enough attention as to why.
 
#27 ·
^
Yeah, just amused, knowing what they think of each other!
I have met and talked with both of them (not in the same place or same time ) and they are very respectful of each other's work if it is brought up in conversation . I find that their differences actually can compliment each other when you take all the parts as pieces of a still incomplete puzzle.
 
#29 ·
Buzzed trough some of their writings, one can see how it would support the trimming method thinking for some.
The more I read the more I feel these Phd´s, expert in their field, seem to be very Mico Sighted
Well yes, different theories & observations influence different trim principles, but I'm interested to know, if you got that idea from an article(which I haven't yet looked at), what exactly is the 'method' you think it supports?

Yes, when we're talking micro anatomy, hope they can be 'micro sighted', but I do know what you mean. Interested to know what in this you feel overly so?

Now I'll go read the article, thanks Patty.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Pollit and Parks are specialist in laminitis.
Bowker on the hoof as a whole and it´s trimming. He´s kinda hung up on the frog and "point of roll" and not looking at the leg as a "whole unit of support". He seem´s to have forgotten or does not realize that by not trimming off excess growth of the sole and by lowering the heels to insure "the maximal working of the frog", the pastorn/coffin bone angle will be broken backward. The situation worsens with time and the more the horse moves it is the heels that take the stress of wear and tear and the toe continues too grow.....thus the leg which like a shock absorber looses it´s abillity to funktion as it was meant too.

Then there is the risk that the large flexor tenden becomes over worked with the risk of swelling and joint inflamation.
I believe I have allready mention this too you.
 
#31 ·
The more I read the more I feel these Phd´s, expert in their field, seem to be very Mico Sighted, staring themselfs blind at the hoof and not looking at the horse as a whole or the leg and it´s function with the hoof as a shock absorbing system.
Sometimes you caint see the forest for the trees.
There is a lot more to their work than what is just in those articles by Dr Pollitt. They as individuals focus their research on different aspects of the hoof.

Dr Pollitt does focus most on laminitis. He is one of the world's leading researchers on that subject. That is why he looks more at the cellular , chemical and molecular parts of the hoof for answers to prevention and cures of that one particular problem . He is not ignoring the mechanical function of the hoof, but his work is not focused on it because there are other researchers who can do that part so he leaves it to them.

He could not have done the very important discoveries in something complicated and so important as laminitis if he were spreading his field of study work all over the place. He leaves that to other researchers such as Dr Bowker.

Dr Bowker's focus is strongly about the mechanical function of the hoof as the shock absorber and blood circulation assistant. His research is very strongly pointed to those aspects of the hoof .

And there is Dr Jean Marie Denoix in France. He focuses on the mechanical function of the anatomy in the foot AND legs, such as the tendons ligaments and bones. He has described and shown in videos the detail how each part interacts with another as shock absorber, springs and in assisting propulsion. And he shows how changes in hoof balance directly affect each part.


This is why all the different researchers' work has to be viewed as parts of a bigger picture.
 
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