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- - Wolf Teeth and Gelding Help Me? (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/wolf-teeth-gelding-help-me-3928/)
Wolf Teeth and Gelding Help Me?
I recently bought a 9 yr old palomino stallion. The guy I bought him from said his roommates daughter who was 13 used to ride him all the time. He said this horse was perfect around other geldings and was a very docile horse.
I went to see him and made the guy ride him before I did. The guy even fell off to show me that the horse wouldn't spook. Which the horse just stood there when the guy fell off. I rode him but the guy didn't have a saddle and he had cut the horse's mane. He said the mane had been caught in some bob wire so he cut it off.
Well it had been 10 years since I rode a horse bareback but I got on him and just walked him around the yard because I am not about to go galloping off with no saddle and no mane to hold on too.
Well the horse was a perfect sweetheart. He just stood there the entire time and didn't act up at all. When the guy delivered him 2 weeks later the horse seem a little bit more anxious. I figured that he was a little uncertain of his whereabouts and this was a normal reaction.
I let him get acquianted with his NEW surroundings a couple of days and decided that I would ride him. I put on his new saddle and I bought a temporary bit which I guess is known as a grazing bit. He didn't want to take the bit at all. I finally coaxed him into taking the bit when I noticed that he had teeth that were standing alone by themselves. I didn't know what they were at the time. After some asking around I found out they were called wolf teeth.
Well I decided to take him off the property to ride him on an open field that is near my house right down the road. Well there are other horse ranches on my road and he caught sight of those other horses and all HELL broke loose. It took me forever to get him back home. Once I got him home and took the saddle off and everything else. (which took a while because he wouldn't settle down) I let him go in the pasture and he took off running all over the place trying to get out.
Well I know that he is a stallion and stallions are always trying to herd new mares. I let him settle down a few days and decided to ride him again but just on my property. By this time I had bought a copper snaffle bit (suggested by one of my horse friends). That took me a VERY long time to get the bit in his mouth. I got on him and decided to do a few circles. He kept trying to bite me and he started to buck and he even reared up with me on him. I did a few little circles to calm him down but that didn't work. I got off him and took all the tack off of him and put him pack in his pasture.
I have been talking with my horse friend and she says that the bit might be hurting him because of his wolf teeth. She says that his wolf teeth should have been removed a long time ago.
I know this is a long post but I wanted everyone to get the full back story of my problems. I need to know if having his wolf teeth removed and also I am having him gelded to take out some of that testosterone will help me? The guy I bought him from said that this horse has been bred before. (he said this horse has been bred 10 times)
Will gelding him and also the teeth surgery help me get him calm enough so I can start ground training him again. I really believe that he needs to start from the beginning on training.
I also need advice on how to properly train him after all these medical surgeries have been done and he has healed properly. If anyone can help me then I would appreciate it so much.
I also want to state that I honestly believe that the guy I bought this horse from drugged him when I first saw him and he is not the same horse that I first saw.
He definitely has some very bad vices as far as biting and food aggressions.
Again I look forward to all of your constructive critism because I know I deserve it.
Hi Brooke, just wondering if you had him vet checked before you bought him? if it had been done it could of been detected in the work, it's great that your going to geld him but please don't expect any thing to change over night, it takes about a year for a gelding to figure out that he's not a stud any more, have you tried lungeing him before ridding him?
Gelding and the wolf tooth removal will help to a degree, but as Kansas said, its not going to solve all problem immediately.
I think you are going to have some "interesting" times ahead.
Regardless of what training method you use, (and I do think you are on the right track with taking him back to ground training) remember to be as aggressive with him as he is with you. He needs to KNOW that you are not going to take his sh**. Use your voice, use your body, just don't use the bit or the whip. The clincher is that you have to decide in a moment whether he is acting out of physical/mental pain or if he's trying to assert dominance, and adjust your behavior towards him accordingly.
If you don't feel safe when he starts acting up under saddle, put him on the lunge and make him work that way. Don't let him start to think that acting like a jerk gets him out of working.
Teaching him to drop his head to pressure on the poll and to open his mouth when you press on the bars of his mouth will help with bitting, but if he's had bad experiences in the past, it will take a lot of patience. Sugar can be your friend in this endeavor, coating the bit can help.
Anyway, since I think this thread is going to generate LOTS of commentary, I'll leave the rest to the other members;) Most of the things I mentioned are either common sense or have been covered in other threads, so I apologize if I'm talking down to you; since I don't know you, I don't know what you know...you know? :p
Good luck, he's a handsome horse.
I have to ask, did the fellow you bought him from use a bit? If not the horse may have never had one used before. You need to contact him and let him know the problems you are having. He may be able to give you some insight as to what the horse has been ridden in before. He didn't have a saddle? That in itself seems a little odd. Has the horse ever been ridden with a saddle or always bare back? I also have to ask why you bought a stallion, not a good choice if this is your reintroduction to horses or your first horse. Whichever, you are now the owner and I doubt the seller would take him back. Get him gelded and have the wolf teeth removed. I would do as much ground work with him as possible and ride him only in a controlled area until you are confident you have his attention. I would suggest having him retrained after the surgerys either by a professional (you go too :) ) Or if thats not an option getting the Parelli dvd's and start him at level 1. http://www.parelli.com/ It involves lots of ground exercises. I don't think you even get on the horse till level 6 :wink:
Good luck with your new horse and BE SAFE.
Thank you everyone for your wonderful feedback. I appreciate it so much. I am new the the training. This is not my first horse, but he won't be my last horse either.
I did not have a vet check him and I now know that in the future I will definitely do all the rights things and not be so anxious to buy.
The guy I bought him from didn't have any tack at his house. He said all of his tack was at the barn where they usually keep him. When I bought this horse I had to go to the guys house and the horse was in the back yard with 3 yearlings colts. The back yard consisted of about a acre of land with tool sheds and little barns and what used to be an above ground pool. Not much room to ride.
He put a hackamore bridle on him but said that he has taken a bit before.
I felt that it will take some time before he realizes that he is not a stud and I don't mind waiting. I have been told that he would never change and I was wasting my time and money with him. I just wanted to get other people's opinions if that was correct.
Again thank you so much for your advice and I know who to come to when I have more questions in which I am sure I will.
I don't think there is a horse that can't be trained unless it has some sort of deformity or brain damage. It will take some time, patience and probably more $$. I understand, the heart wants what the heart wants. I do believe in love at first sight :)
For sure gelding should help enormously. Some take a while to settle and others fairly quick. Is he able to see other horses where you have himm now? Most horses if suddenly kept alone will get rather excited when seeing new horses on a ride. He might be lonely. The lunging is a good idea and maybe check to see what food he was getting before and try to purchase same unless he was in bad shape. You must be very safe and perhaps only handle him when another person is around until he and you are confident.
Kind of odd that the guy did not have tack around to show you the horse, he sound very shady. I hope the horse wasn't stolen
Wolf teeth are fun! My gelding is 9 years old and if you so much as get a bit close to his mouth hell breaks loose. He will not tolerate one at all. If you are lucky to get it in his mouth you wont be able to ride. Ive never seen a horse act like that but for some reason when they still have those teeth its almost impossible to ride them in a bit. So, I switched to a sidepull and Ive never had a problem sense.
Just an FYI, the woof teeth are way back right in front of the molars. You don't see them easily. The stand alone teeth that sit directly in front of the bit are called canines. They do not remove those. However if he has long ones they should be filed down so they don't cause him pain. If the bit is properly placed it should not bump the canines. :)
The guy told me the that he fed Nutrena Safe choice a 12 % protien pellet. I went to my local feed store that carries it and they even had a nutrena salesman there that day and I spoke to him about his products.
I really do like the nutrena safe choice. It seems to have put a lot more weight on him and he looks healthier than the day I got him. It is a little bit more expensive but I don't mind considering the nutrition that is gives a horse. I also only feed him 2 times a day with half a bail of hay each time. He is in a small pen right now because we are in the middle of food plots. we had a lot of work down on our pasture areas. So the grass is starting to come in. I feel bad that he is in this small pen but we finally got about half an inch of rain plus we have been watering the ground like crazy for this grass to grow.
He is kept out of sight of other horses. I only have him and I am also looking for another horse here soon so he can have a friend. Preferably a mare or another gelding. Once he has been gelded. I am not into the whole breeding process. I don't know the first thing about breeding a horse. Plus I think Sarge has had enough babies brought into this world from his previous owner.
About the stolen horse topic. I thought the same thing too so I have been looking around online for websites that people report their stolen horses on just to see if I can see a picture of him. I haven't seen one yet. The guy I bought him from said that he was a rescue. He said that a lady was boarding him at his barn and never came to see him and got behind on her board. So he kept the horse and she gave up ownership of the horse. Now it did seem kind of funny that he said rescue but yet he took the horse as back payment from a boarding situation. Either way I didn't trust the guy. I just saw the horse and knew that he didn't get well taken care of and I felt like I had to rescue him from this man.
The guy did give me a coggins test on the horse that he had from a year ago.
This Friday I am having a vet come out to do another Coggins on him. Check him all over and also the gelding and wolf teeth removal. I might ask him then if he thinks his teeth need to be floated.
If everything goes ok Friday. I have had this scheduled 2 times before and the vet kept canceling on me. Maybe I can start moving forward after this friday with the training of this horse.
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