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My Beau 11-21-2009 04:56 PM

Panacur PowerPak
 
Where's the cheapest place to buy them from?

I've found 52.99 from horse.com... can you get them for less?

Ryle 11-22-2009 01:18 PM

Why are you using a powerpac? If you want to treat encysted strongyles and there are no health issues in this horse, moxidectin is actually easier on the GI tract. Fenbendazole has been shown to cause the same sort of damage you treat encysted strongyles to prevent. Fenbendazole treatment mimics the kind of severe inflammatory event in the lining of the GI tract when encysted strongyles are present.


Vet Parasitol. 2006 Jun 30;139(1-3):115-31. Epub 2006 May 3.
Small strongyle infection: consequences of larvicidal treatment of horses with fenbendazole and moxidectin.

Steinbach T, Bauer C, Sasse H, Baumgärtner W, Rey-Moreno C, Hermosilla C, Damriyasa IM, Zahner H.
Institute of Parasitology, Justus Liebig University Giessen, Rudolf-Buchheim-Strasse 2, D-35392 Giessen, Germany.
The study was undertaken to evaluate adverse effects of larvicidal treatment in horses naturally infected with cyathostomins. Out of 24 ponies kept on pasture, four animals were housed in September and anthelmintically cured to serve as worm-free controls (group C-0). The others were housed in December. Eight animals each were treated 8 weeks later with 5 x 7.5mg/kg fenbendazole (FBZ) or 1 x 0.4 mg/kg moxidectin (MOX). Four animals remained untreated (group C-i). Two, 4, 6 and 14 days after the end of treatment two animals of each of the treated groups were necropsied together with group C-0 and C-i animals. Infected animals before treatment showed weight loss, eosinophilia, increased plasma protein and globulin contents. Treatment was followed by weight gain and temporal plasma protein and globulin increase. Proportions of CD4+ and CD8+ T lymphocytes in the peripheral blood did not differ between the groups before treatment but dropped significantly temporally after FBZ treatment. Group C-0 was worm-free at necropsy. Group C-i animals contained variable numbers of luminal and tissue cyathostomins. Histological sections showed larval stages in the lamina propria und submucosa surrounded by macrophages. Either treatment was effective against luminal parasites and reduced the number of larvae in the bowel wall beginning 4-6 days after FBZ and 6-14 days after MOX treatment. Histologically, as a first reaction after FBZ application T lymphocytes accumulated around morphologically intact L4 in the submucosa. Subsequently T lymphocytes associated with eosinophils infiltrated the submucosa. Parasites became enclosed by granulomas with eosinophils adhering to and invading the larvae which started to disintegrate on day 4. Later on, particularly on day 14 inflammation extended into the mucosa and was frequently associated with ulcerations. Third stage larvae in general and L4 in the lamina propria, however, seemed not to be affected until day 14 and even then, parasites did usually not generate extensive inflammation. After MOX treatment severe morphologically detectable alterations of tissue larvae could not be observed earlier than day 14. Different from FBZ treatment, larvae disintegrated and were obviously resorbed without causing severe inflammation in the gut wall. In conclusion treatment with either drug was efficacious against tissue larvae of cyathostomins but there may be different clinical consequences: in contrast to MOX effects, killing of larvae due to FBZ was associated with severe tissue damage, which clinically may correspond to reactions caused by synchronous mass emergence of fourth stage larvae, i.e., may mimic larval cyathostominosis.

sillybunny11486 11-22-2009 01:37 PM

My vets suggested something other than a powerpack to treat my infected horse. He got a regular dose of pyrantel, then a some sort of pills for 5-7 days. I have the leftovers at my barn, I forget what they actually are. My vet suggested that pack safeguard has, to give once a year to once every two years to get ride of the baby worms (also forget what they are called.)

My vet has never had a problem with any wormer, except quest gel (caused mouth uclers in some horses) and regular suggests equimax instead of regular ivermectin, because that kills tapeworms as well.

My Beau 11-22-2009 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryle (Post 469021)
Why are you using a powerpac? If you want to treat encysted strongyles and there are no health issues in this horse, moxidectin is actually easier on the GI tract.

Because I'm using it on a lactating mare.

My Beau 11-22-2009 08:54 PM

I was running out to get a load of hay earlier when I posted.

In addition to it being used on a lactating mare, here are other reasons why I want to use it:
The PPP gets the 3rd stage encysted larvae that moxidectin does not get. I know that the PPP causes a mucus inflammation around day 14 (after the first dose) that mimics the emergence (they're really just dying) of the encysted larvae... it causes some horse to act colicky. I've never had a horse act colicky, so until I have a horse that shows s/he can't handle it, then I'm going to use it. I've read about problems with Quest crossing the blood-brain barrier, and know of someone whose healthy horse died from it... and it was not because of an OD.

I've dosed horses with unknown deworming history with PPP and have never had an issue with it. I don't know this mare's history and am looking to PP her in January or February. It would be great if she could get one sooner, but we can't fit it into our rotation at the next deworming.

If something in the environment triggers the emergence of the little buggers I don't want my mare to bleed to death internally, I want them out ASAP and it not going to be by the way of Quest because of the above reasons and the fact that she is still occasionally nursing her last foal.

AlmagroN 11-22-2009 11:46 PM

i love the panacur powerpacs. that sounds cheap to me. the last time i bought it, it was 70 bucks!

Ryle 11-23-2009 10:39 AM

Mouth ulcerations can be seen with moxidectin or ivermectin due to the killing of bot fly larva that are encysted in the gums/tongue. However this is more common with one specific ivermectin product-Zimectrin Gold.

Quest Plus doesn't cross the blood brain barrier unless there is a problem such as over-dosing or some damage the the central nervous system or organ dysfunction. Head/neck trauma, inflammation of the central nervous system, EPM, etc can all affect the functioning of the blood-brain-barrier and lead to neurotoxicity from allowing substances that should not pass into the CNS to do get there.

I've been party to hundreds of doses of moxidectin being given---even in senior horses, pregnant mares, etc and have seen no adverse reactions. However, you are right, I wouldn't dose it in lactating mares.

I simply cannot understand the logic behind giving a drug to kill encysted larva that are doing no damage and with which the major issue is the severe GI inflammation that they can cause if they all emerge at once when you know that the drug you are giving causes the very severe inflammation that is the main reason for getting rid of encysted strongyles.

Alwaysbehind 11-23-2009 11:30 AM

I thought My Beau just asked where she could find a PP for a good price, not a long drawn out speech about what a bad horse owner she was being for using it.

I personally have never heard of a PP being a bad thing. Ryle you are the first person I have ever heard say they are a bad thing, actually. I have heard people say they are not as affective as some would like them to be but never they are evil.

Ryle 11-23-2009 11:50 AM

Lots of people missed the study done on them in 2006. Until then there hadn't been a study that looked at the adverse affects in that way. And any colic that occured 2 weeks after dosing with a Powerpac was just assumed to be coincidental rather than possibly caused by the dewormer because no one knew that it caused that sort of damage to the GI tract.

(I posted a summary of the study above.)

Alwaysbehind 11-23-2009 11:55 AM

I read what you posted.

Thanks.........

Again, you are the one and only person I have ever heard insist that Quest is more safe on a horse with an unknown de-worming history.



OP, though I am not fond of Horse.com they seem to have the best prices on those things. I say go for it.


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