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Gelding question

7K views 42 replies 18 participants last post by  5cuetrain 
#1 ·
Okay, I'm getting a lot of mixed opinions from my horse friends so I thought I would ask everyone here.

I have a 3/4 shire colt that just turned 8 months on Dec 1st. When my vet did his vaccs back when he got here, he said I ought to plan on having him gelded by 8 months. When the vet was out here a few weeks back treating an abscess on my mare's foot, he re-iterated I needed to think about gelding the colt soon because he is so big already (14.1 when I taped him yesterday). He said he'll start developing stud behaviors soon that will be a problem. (note the colt doesn't act studdy at all. He is still very baby-ish in personality, just follows mama around and plays, or feels sorry for himself when I work with him.)

A good friend of mine who raises Friesian crosses argues since my colt is mostly draft, he is slower developing and I shouldn't consider gelding him until his second birthday, to geld him sooner will make him "mareish" in appearance (I know drafts ARE slower to mature, but I have always thought this theory of gelding a horse young making him "mareish" was a myth?) But most of my friends are tuning in with her, saying I should really wait to geld him until I absolutely have too, to maximise his growth potential. To me - he's going to darn well be tall enough, I am not overly concerned with maximising his height!

Generally I would always go with my vet's opinion, but my colt hasn't even dropped yet, and I don't think it's at that "too late" point where I have to consider major surgery on him, right? Anyone have thoughts on a good age to geld draft colts?
 
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#6 ·
Well if you want him taller geld him young. If you want him more muscular geld him older. Testosterone helps to close the growth plates sooner and produces a more muscular animal (or human). So get rid of the testosterone and the plates will stay open longer. I don't know anything about the whole "mareish" thing. Sorry :)

Of course, the absolutely most important aspect of when to geld him is your ability to deal with him when he starts feeling like a big man and your ability to keep him away from mares. That's my opinion anyways.

Now on to the important part... Pics? LOL :)
 
#8 ·
Well, that makes it a little simpler. I'd rather have him bulkier than taller, for sure! He'll be tall enough as it is. I'm confident enough in my ability to handle him thinking he's a tough guy, but do I want to is another thing altogether. :lol:

As for pictures, haha, I posted a couple of him (and his mama) on this thread: http://www.horseforum.com/draft-horses/post-pics-your-drafts-draft-crosses-18520/

but they bad pictures, it's too dark in my barn. I'll try to get some better ones put up.

Thanks for the advice!
 
#7 ·
I don't intend to keep him a stud regardless, he will be gelded, just a question of when. The only mares on the property are his mama and my son's 11.2 hand pony mare, who already needs to be separated when she is in heat - my 7 year old gelding wasn't gelded until he was 6, and he was used for breeding, so he DOES has some studdy behaviors (not too bad though. Just have to put the girls up when they come in heat.) I really don't want Finn (the colt) developing any bad behaviors, but it just feels like it's a long way off right now. I guess I'll just wait for now until he drops, assuming he does within a reasonable time, and try to make a judgement then. While I'm not concerned with his height, I'd like him to be fairly bulky, just for my own riding comfort several years down the road. I don't know, I guess the wait and see approach is a good one! I was just feeling a little attacked, I guess, by my vet wagging his finger and making me feel like I am neglecting my horse by not having it done already.

Thanks guys.
 
#9 ·
I would geld as soon as I could after he drops, not before. But if he hasn't by 2 I would get the surgery. If he don't drop he wil still get the stud manners. He may not get studly but if he does it awhole lot of horse to control. It's alot easier for you and them if their cut before they get the bad behavior, thay way they never know anything about acting that way. You, him, and your other horses are safer.
My sister has a colt that she was waiting on him to drop and he's gotten the stud behavior now and when her mare is in season, her geldings play HELL. He ran one of the gelding through a fence and he got stabed with a T post (hate those things). 600.00 vet bill and 6 months later, he's much better but not sure he's going to be sound for heavy riding.
 
#10 ·
Yikes!! That's terrible, yeah those t posts are the worst, I'm still digging up ones that are set in concrete around the side barnyard (the horses are fenced well away from there, there was a bunch of trash, rusty old barbed wire and posts strewn through that whole section when I moved in).

I guess that's my real fear, is what if he doesn't drop - my vet seems to think he should have by now, but my friend that breeds the friesian crosses says a lot of her colts don't drop until 18 months.
 
#12 ·
I just read a couple things quickly, but it seems that most of them drop by 2. If he hasn't by then there may be an issue, but you're planning on gelding anyways, so it'll just be a little more expensive.

We had a TWH colt that bred his half and full sisters at about a year old (maybe a little less). This was years ago, but they were certian he couldn't breed yet. He was gelded a while later, but still maintained some "studdish" type behaviors towards mares afterwards. But there were no problems whatsoever when riding him or on the ground. This was about 26 or so years ago, so nobody castigate me for something that happened when I was two. :)
 
#13 ·
I don't think he would be 'marish' however, he wouldn't get big jowls, a thicker neck and other stallion traits. I do know that if he is left ungelded for to long that he will not grow to his fullest potential height because the hormones his body releases will cause his growth plates to close sooner rather than later.
 
#14 ·
MN Tigerstripes - hey, things happen. :) I've heard of horses breeding that young, and had an experience with a 14 month old at a farm I used to work at, but I just don't see it at this point with Finn. When you've handled a few stallions and unruly colts you get a feel for the behavior, and like I said, Finn is just such a baby still. Although I weaned him off at 5 months to help his mama gain weight, once I put them back together he still just acts like a weanling. There's no maturity to him whatsoever. Then again there's little exposure for him to get his hormones going - his mom is pregnant and I separate out the pony mare when she goes in heat. (otherwise my 1,800 lb gelding tries to mount her - he is a bit studdy!) I will of course keep close eye on him and watch for any signs of maturity, though.

AQHA13 - haha my vet expects Finn to mature pretty near 18 hands or better - losing a little of that "height potential" doesn't sound horrible to me. Maybe I'm getting old, maybe I'm just a bad person. :twisted:
 
#15 ·
Forgive me, if I repeat some things as I just skimmed through the responses.:)

A horses height is a horses height...its genetically predetermined. Gelding wont make a difference on his height. If left till later he will get thicker muscle wise more bulk, but IMO not attractive bulk for just a riding horse.

It is best to geld as soon as possible IMO. Less chance of them developing studish habits if gelded late. Have seen geldings retain studish habits such as mounting mares may seem harmless, but it can cause injuries, running down other geldings, nipping (humans included)

We geld all our colts in and around 6- 8 months (shortly after they have been weaned.) We also do so in winter, or early spring...less chance of infection due to flies and heat.

AS for dropping, even though they have not "dropped" completley a vet can still geld with out surgery...it just depends how high up they are...he can sometimes still "pull" them down to cut. Just have your vet out, and he;ll manipulate to see if he is ready. And 99% of the time they are ready by 6 months:wink:

I would say get him gelded. If not keeping him for breeding there is no point in keeping him intact.
 
#16 ·
Indyhorse - He's a pretty boy, looks like he's gonna be a tall one too. I'd like to ride a draft someday. It seems like it'd be so different than my "little" QH or TWH.

Maverik - Height is influenced quite a bit by testosterone as I previously mentioned. This is proven in all species, including humans. Of course, there is an obvious genetic component to height, but there are plenty of "nature/environmental" components that can add or subtract to genetics. When you starve a young animal in a crucial point of growth they won't meet their full growth potential. Same concept just different mechanism and result. It holds true in dogs too.
 
#17 ·
Haha if you are ever in the area give me a call and I'll let you try mine. My gelding doesn't actually ride all that different from the QH I used to have - he does have a bone-jarring drafty trot but you can collect him back into a very nice easy jog, much like a QH, his canter is unbelivable though, just awesome and smooth as can be. He is slower to turn and not terribly sure footed :lol: but we are still doing a lot of work with him, he's pretty green still after all - according to the seller he was broke to drive much better than ride, but he's coming along. He has a lot more fire then I would have expected from a draft cross. My mare is a different ride altogether. I haven't put a lot of time on her back because of her bad foot, but she seems to be gaited (only when riding, I've never seen her do it from the ground.) She goes into a walker gait, complete with head shaking, I am guessing she might actually be Shire/Walker rather than Shire/Paint, I've seen a lot of black and white Walkers. Other than not knowing a lot yet, she's easy. I ride her with an indian hack because she seems to have a metal allergy or something. But other than longer strides to cover the same distance, they really don't feel all that different. However, they are crosses. I used to have a huge Belgian years ago, and he was difficult to ride, just because of sheer size.
 
#19 ·
Hahaha it is a little, but not too much on my guys, although Claymore is built like a tank, my horses aren't unusually tall. Claymore, the gelding, is in between 16.1-16.2. Freyja, the mare, is 15.3. My last horse before them, which was a QH gelding, was 15 even so while they feel bigger than him, they don't feel scary high up :) I put some better pictures of them on that draft horse thread, so you can see them a little better.

I am assuming, BTW, that my Claymore is a good demonstration of the "bulk up VS height" comparison you were talking about - He is very bulky and heavy, with big jowls and a cresty neck - he was used as a stallion and just gelded last year. But like I said, he's not crazy tall. He does have some studdy behaviors - but some actually work in my favor, too - he's very neat and tidy in his stall :)
 
#21 ·
Have the vet out and get him gelded. The bigger you let him get the more stress he will have from the procedure and the more risk there is. I agree that there has been NO good evidence that horses that keep the jewels stay shorter than if they were gelded. There is really no way to test that. In health matters it's best to take the vets advice.
 
#23 ·
I say get him gelded as soon as you can. We had my boy gelded at four months and he's so laid back now at three and a half years that I can do virtually anything with him.
 
#27 ·
My weanling is 10 months and hasnt dropped yet. Im not sure that gelding will effect height too much, its genetics. More testosterone will make him look more like a stud though. If you have mares I would geld him asap, after he drops. I wouldnt wait till he gets studly, sometimes that behavior dosent go away.
 
#28 ·
Maverik - From your second link

"Another reason for castration is to reduce masculine conformational features. Testosterone affects growth leading to earlier closure of growth plates in developing bones. The result is a shorter, stockier, more muscular stature. The muscles of the face, jaws, and neck are particularly powerful in the stallion. Castrating at an earlier age will reduce these masculinizing effects of testosterone. Unfortunately studies have not been performed in the horse to pinpoint the critical ages of testosterone’s effect on conformation. Likely it is sometime before 18 months of age since so much growth occurs by this age in the horse. "

This is what I said in my earlier posts. Of course, based on this article this becomes a moot point after 18 months of age as most of the growth has already occurred. So there would be absolutely no reason (height or muscularity) not to geld a horse (unless you were planning on using him for breeding) after this point. I
 
#29 ·
Ok I think we are arguing the same point here:lol:

Someone stated that if you a geld a horse before 2 they will not grow as Tall. I said this WAS NOT the case. Hence the two links.

Horses that are gelded early will still reach their full height potential that they genetically were predetermined too (of course there can be some variation in this based on nutrition, and excess amounts of testosterone
Testosterone will increase muscle mass, resulting in a stockier frame...but will not increase height.

So yeah, not sure why your picking a debate w me, as were saying the same thing?
 
#30 ·
Closing of the growth plates will happen later in castrated horses, but it will not significantly change the height.

Gelding younger is actually desirable in these large breed horses because the more size the greater the risk associated with anesthesia. By gelding horses young, you anesthetize them when they have lower body weight and thus less risk of adverse events associated with being anesthetized and laid down. There is also less risk of serious post-op bleeding when you castrate younger horses. And there is less risk to the handlers during anesthetesia and during recovery.

The Horse | Castration In The Horse
 
#33 ·
Vihar was gelded at 19 months - and only then because we didn't want him to be seperated from the rest of our herd .

Vihar
Horse Mammal Vertebrate Mane Stallion


If you are used to young stallions / colts then I would wait until your gut instinct tells you it's time - either that or when your vet says it must be done because of his size
 
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