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- - Breeding debate (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/breeding-debate-43281/)
after an interesting thred ive seen i wanted to start a topic.
why ? Why not rescue a horse in need theres tons of greenies if you want a prospect or training project. theres also tons' of school masters at those auctions. as well as babys. IMO a lot of 'breeders' arent breeders. they are muny hungry and dont care 100% about their mares well being in the long run. Not saying any one on here is that way.. thats the majority though.
so WHY do you, or would you breed over rescuing a living breathing in need of help horse rather than bringing in another life to this moneyless world to just possibly end up at auction ?
not trying to get on any ones bad side im interested in hearing opinions.
I myself wont ever breed my mares. im a supporter of rescue as thats where all my horse's have come from.
As a general rule I'd rather rescue than breed. I am NOT, however, saying that breeding is not okay. I think it depends very much on the situation. I think the only time you should breed horses is if they have very promising bloodlines and you are looking for a horse which will excel in a specific discipline. I think that if you breed just to breed or because you just want a baby, then rescuing is definitely the way you should go.
This is a big issue with me.
Personally, I feel that if someone wants to breed their horse, they have the right to do so. I obviously would prefer that only high quality horses be bred in responsible settings, but honestly if the conditions are right and the person is a responsible horse owner that is prepared to take on the burden of having a foal around, who are we or anyone else to judge them for that.
There are a lot of reasons not to rescue. Some people are breeding to get a horse that can potentially be ridden and shown. A lot of rescue horse's have health problems that do not allow riding or showing for that matter. Many rescues won't even ALLOW you to show a perfectly sound horse. Another reason is that they want a baby out of their own horse, for bloodlines or whatever other reason. Many people think that this is "cruel because there are helpless horses out there.." I think this is not the case. As much as I feel terrible about the horse's out there that are in need of good homes and care, it isn't my fault or responsibility. It's almost like the people who breed are blamed for those homeless horse's existence. As long as they are being responsible, they have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to run out and rescue as many horse's as possible, but you can't judge someone because they don't want to and would rather breed. It's not a crime, it's a personal decision.
I would rather breed. For several reasons.
One the chance of finding what I want and need at a rescue is slime to none. Plane and simple. The horses that I want do not hit rescues. If they do the chances I would find them at the time I want one and get their papers and be able to do what I want with that horse are even slimmer.
That leads me to my next reason I do not rescue. The limitations on what I can do with that horse. Most of the time you get no papers so you do not know the lines of the horse. Once you do get them trained you can not sell them for their value you either have to return them to the rescue or re home then to an approved home. So that limits what I can do with MY PROPERTY. So that is a very very big turn off for me.
I think it all depends on what you have and what you want to do with the baby.
If someone has a great mare and breed it to the great stud (I know some examples around here as well as some examples on this forum) for the particular discipline that baby would be potentially good, then why not? You know what you are getting and the potential of the baby and you can start it from ground zero. Of course, things happen too, but it worse the risk IMO.
However if someone decides to breed a mare just to get a foal, that's something I don't think I can understand. Even from financial point of view: it's just much cheaper to get a baby at the auction or even from private buyer. So for such cases I'd say rescue!
Uh oh. This thread is either going to be really great and informative...or really bad.
I buy. I don't like auctions despite getting my current horse from one. I don't get enough information about the horse and it makes too many impulse buys. Maybe thats just for me though. I wouldn't mind getting a horse from a rescue, but I am more inclined to buy. That way I know exactly what I am getting and if it fits what I need.
There are certain times when breeding is certainly the right choice though. If you know what you are doing, have the money and time to put into breeding a mare. I think if you just want to plod around on the trails and muck around at local shows, buy/rescue. If you need a certain type of high caliber horse for performance, I have no problem with breeding.
Not many people do I think (?)
The problem is people who breed just for fun and because foals are so cute and they want to raise the foal because that will make it special and well this stud is pretty and my mare is so sweet so the baby will be pretty AND sweet...
That's where the problems begin
I would perfer to breed for several reasons; one, I have more control over the genetics of the foal, know the foal more personally, and more control over the training over the foal.
If all horse breeding was shut down day. in 4 years the derbies and futurities would be gone. In 11 years there would no horses in eventing, dressage, hunter jumper, roping, or any other event; I know it does take 10 years to get a foal to be able to compare in those events but that is when they seem to be at their prime. In 20 to 30 years there will be no horses for anyone period.
Yes there are allot of horses out there that, I won't even look at buying or have wondered what were those breeders thinking. Some of it is not what I like or it doesn't match what I would use a horse for. And some of those horses are perfect for waht they are breed to do, a Shire would be a horrible to run in the Kentucky Derby but it is a great horse for pulling a wagon for example. I also question why are they breeding halter horses that are HYPP N/H.
While adopting is most likely is cheaper than breeding. Is it better for what you are doing? And this is something my grand dad told me when I was a kid. The cheapest one does the job, we were comparing cattle prod at the time and I had reached for the cheaper one of the two. And he told be me nope the other one, the cheaper one doesn't do the job right.
Breeding horses is legal, and people will do whatever they want.
That being said, I don't think the 'average joe' or 'average jane' should be breeding. As Spastic indicated, most of the time it's for emotional reasons instead of something well thought out.
Wanting a foal from particular bloodlines for a certain discipline is a GOOD reason. Wanting a foal because your mare is 'pretty' and 'sweet' and 'would make a good mommy' are not good reasons.
You have to look at WHY you're breeding a particular stallion to a particular mare. Just because one has working testicles and the other a uterus, do not necessarily make them good breeding partners.
What are your plans for the foal? If you haven't thought past, "We want a foal 'cause my mare deserves to be a mommy and the baby will be kyoot", you should not be breeding.
GOOD stallion fees are rarely free, and if you're breeding to Billy Bob's grade paint stallion down the road because his price is right, you should not be breeding.
Breeding is serious business, and I've seen some horrendous crosses that made me wonder what drug the mare and stallion owners were on when they decided to mate their horses.
Genetics are a tricky thing. Even the best breeding can go awry and NOT produce the foal you want. However, the odds are better if you start with good stock and breed to good stock for specific, well thought out reasons.
I personally would rather rescue or pick up an unbroken horse from an auction. I can appreciate well bred horses but I just don't have a need for them. With the horse population being what it is right now, I don't think that people who want to breed their backyard mare to the neighbor's backyard stud should because there are already way too many mediocre horses out there. I don't believe that breeding just because a person wants the experience of having a foal is a good reason. Neither is breeding because foals are so cute. Breeding just because a horse is crippled or unrideable and not good for a **** thing else is not okay. Neither is breeding funky looking mares to funky looking studs because "they don't have the same confo issues, they might even each other out", even if their temperments are decent.
I think that people who breed well bred horses and are financially and intellectually capable of raising a foal well are fine because generally, they better the entire species.
I think that if you have the means and the knowledge, breeding is acceptable. Even if it's to less then stellar partners that most people may not think breeding is a good idea. We can't all be breeding champions 24/7, there is a huge market for reliable trail horses. No, you don't want to be breeding dysfunctional disasters for the sake of breeding, but I don't have an issue with "backyard breeding" if it's well thought out with a plan in mind. I get annoyed at "breeders" who pop out dozens of babies a year with no other intention then to sell them - I would rather see someone breeding a pair with conformational faults with a true intention of the foal then see these registered animals being auctioned every year for a few hundred bucks because the only thing they have going for them are some papers.
Breeding is a crapshoot regardless. You can breed champion to champion and get nothing - it happens all the time. And every once in awhile you can breed defective to defective and get something amazing because of the strength of the past lines.
Something VERY interesting was brought up on FHOTD awhile back - go take a look at some of our founding champions of different breeds. 9 times out of 10, at first glance, you would gasp and shake your fist saying "NOBODY SHOULD BREED THAT MESS". And yet they're the roots and lineage of today's champions. Certain conformation faults you don't want, but a skilled breeder can use the strength of a pedigree and breed those faults out.
I have no issue with breeding, I just have an issue with emotional breeding and mass breeding. These, realistically, are the horses you're finding at auction. They haven't been trained properly and were bred only to be sold, so nobody wants them. Even if things don't work out and you end up selling that mongrol foal you bred - all it takes is a few years of solid training to make them worth more then that registered yearling with an attitude problem.
Our area is also very different - we have WAY less issues with equine over population. We have a ridiculously growing need for reliable trail horses and a ridiculous lack of supply, so in my area, I would be far less opposed to someone breeding potentially less then stellar animals. Again though, it could just as easily be accomplished by buying some yearlings or two year olds and training them for homes.
I don't think anyone should be made to feel bad for breeding an animal that has a demand in their community. Rescueing is great, but more often then not, you're rescueing animals that are defective at best and may not amount to much. People shouldn't be forced to deal with other peoples problems if they know what they're doing.
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