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Kayty 12-25-2009 01:37 AM

New world record... opinions?

What do you think? Does he deserve the 92.300%?

My thoughts....

He is stunning, and exceptionally talented with a beautifull rider on board.... but go back and watch it with your hand over his front end. Hind end really doesn't do it for me he's very slow in the hocks. Piaffe/passage is LOVELY very regular which is a very nice change from most of the other horses competing at that level. Extensions.... again cover the front end. There's nothing behind hh's smacking himself in the face his front end is that spectacular, but there's nothing behind.
Canter is lovely, but there were quite a few instances where he was 4 beating and the 2's weren't straight- it may have been the camera angle though.
Certainly the best horse out there on the elite circuit at the moment (that is being publicised), no doubt about that, but I find it a bit of a shame that nothing at that level ever has a flashy hind end now. People just look at the front. But hey, who am I to say, where have I got with my dressage so far?

mayfieldk 12-25-2009 07:26 AM

Nah, you're right. A lot of tests are done behind the vertical--and all flash up front and nothing behind.

Yay modern dressage.

Spirithorse 12-27-2009 09:46 PM

I agree, not too impressed. In some shots, could he have had him cranked in any tighter? Good grief.

kevinshorses 12-27-2009 10:19 PM

I recently started a thread about feel. That is a great example of feel, timing and cadence. I was impressed. He wasn't ever behind the vertical and niether one of them were pulling on the riens. Fantastic!!!

Honeysuga 12-27-2009 10:31 PM

I thought it was a lovely ride. sure his high end was not too great, but it was better than a lot that you see now a days... And he wasn't behind the vertical 98% of the time.

crimson88 12-27-2009 10:57 PM

I didn't get to see the whole test (slow internet connection, ugh) but in the amount I saw, the man does have firm contact but it's not a death grip, force 'em on the bit contact. I didn't see him go behind the vertical, but yes I do know what you mean about modern dressage in these days, but obvisouly this horse was not taught by "modern techniques". Personally, I think his hocks showed enough action and implusion. Maybe that's all he can get depending on his build. He does appear to be one of those warmbloods where all the muscles naturally up front. I honestly think he did amazing from the few minitutes I saw.

ridergirl23 12-27-2009 11:23 PM

I personally think it is simply amazing, that is the real version of the black stallion ;) personally, i try not to critique harshly when i have never tryed what im critiqueing, you never know how hard it is! i think it is a beautiful combonation of rider and horse. they work well together! ohhhh can you imagine getting to ride that horse? that would be a dream! lol but i still would rather my rena over him <3

nrhareiner 12-27-2009 11:55 PM

My question is how many judges did he get that score under???

ridergirl23 12-27-2009 11:59 PM


Originally Posted by nrhareiner (Post 502426)
My question is how many judges did he get that score under???

im nto sure... the normal amount which i THINK is, 2 at C, 2 at E,2 more at B annndddd im not sure, that is just my guess :P im not sure how many there are in the olympics:D

dressagexlee 12-28-2009 01:07 AM

Personally, I'm appalled. Here are the comments I posted on their ride at EuroChamps in Windsor:


pinknessxlee (1 month ago)
I feel compelled to write my opinion.
There is no doubt that Totilas (his barn name is Toto :3) is a sweet horse - all horses are. The music is wonderful, and the test has great choreography. But this to me just isn't what dressage is all about. This shouldn't be what is considered perfect. This shouldn't be what sets a record. In fact, it disgusts me to find that a rollkur trained horse with ridiculously flashy (possibly manufactured) movement is what they've labled as perfect. But that's what dressage is turning into, isn't it? We're no longer living in an era were dressage means to train, or to be in harmony with the horse and strive for creating a happy, healthy animal that is more than willing to work. Toto is certainly listening to his rider, and he performs well, but I see so much tension and so little freedom in his movement. Even when he walks into the ring. And not every movement is performed correctly, his back end seems weak as well - a majority of his muscle is grouped in his chest and a ridiculous amount of it in the neck. I really do prefer the floaty, free moving horses to this tense, steroid over-dose look. Don't get me wrong, and don't attack me because I think this way (it's my opinion after all), but I can't help but pray that the next generation of dressage riders is the one to preserve some of the classical methods, and puts the welfare and happiness of their horses above all.

stearinlys (3 weeks ago)
How does one know that rollkur is the method that has been used? And how can one establish from a short clip like this that the horse is not a happy, healthy animal? These are general questions that I'd like an answer to - NOT because I'm a defender of rollkur (I'm not - the little I've read about it disgusts me), but because I want to be able to "discover" such things for myself when I watch dressage. Although it's an awful thought to think that the truth behind this performance is an ugly one.

pinknessxlee (3 weeks ago)
The chin-hitting knees are the first thing, the unnatural over-muscling of the neck (with a serious lack of muscle in the hind end), and the fact that he's tenser than a block of wood are the most obvious signs. (Salinero looks like this too.) Edward Gal is a hyperflxion user and there is video and picture proof of him doing so. (With Gribaldi: /watch?v=J5pH5CEoZks)
Check out this great video on rollkur: /watch?v=O0hyOmMULYA
As I said, the FEI Dressage Board is so corrupt and so incredibly awful right now it actually makes me boil with anger. The judges should be shot. Why, why in the world is a horse trained in the abusive method of rollkur considered to be what is striven for in this sport?!
To me, it doesn't matter what kind of grip he has on the reins, what he says, or how many times he patted the horse at the end. What matters is the fact that this method that is proven to have negative effects on the horse's mind and body is being endorsed and rewarded.

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