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cowboy83001 02-24-2010 06:27 PM

confused about this one.
 
Ok gang i need some help here . Been breeding horses for awhile and i just got a new arival sunday morning. a red dun mare and a dun stallion decided to have a black foal with 2 socks and a star but my question is were the heck did this come from. A black foal was not what i was intending please help me determine what the colors going to be.You can see a dorsal and some shoulder barring in the right light. His got mouse coloring in flanks and on his legs please help ...

lilkitty90 02-24-2010 06:41 PM

maybe he will fade out to be a Grulla?? i don't know much about genetics but i'll be waiting to hear what everyone else says as well

White Foot 02-24-2010 07:41 PM

You have been breeding horse for awhile but yet you don't know about genetics and dominate traits?

White Foot 02-24-2010 07:43 PM

Color Calculator

wild_spot 02-24-2010 08:05 PM

Okay, i'll have a go.

The dun stallion would have a black base coat, and the red dun mare would have a red base coat, probably with no agouti (bay). So the foal has got his black base coat from daddy, plus no agouti that would lighten him to a light dun/buckskin. He could also have buckskin/dun over the black base coat which would cause the dorsal stripe, lightening, and leg barring - So he could be a smoky buckskin (Buckskin on black, no agouti) Or whatever the equivalent of that is with dun instead of buckskin.

nrhareiner 02-24-2010 08:07 PM

The black foal came from the Dun Stallion. Dun is black based.

Black is dominant over red. The dun stallion (black with dun with agouti) crossed with a Red Dun mare (red with dun and may or may not have the agouti (hides in red))

So you get the black from the sire and if the foal is truly black then neither the sire or dam are Homozygous for the Agouti.

nrhareiner 02-24-2010 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wild_spot (Post 562777)
He could also have buckskin/dun over the black base coat which would cause the dorsal stripe, lightening, and leg barring - So he could be a smoky buckskin (Buckskin on black, no agouti) Or whatever the equivalent of that is with dun instead of buckskin.

Not if the Dun is a true dun there would be no cream gene to give you a buckskin. Now the Dun COULD be a dunskin in which case you could get a Buckskin dun skin and so on but if he is a true dun then no chance of a Buckskin.

PaintsPwn 02-24-2010 08:10 PM

Quote:

You have been breeding horse for awhile but yet you don't know about genetics and dominate traits?
You should know as well as anyone, lots of breeders don't know about genetics, as unfortunate as that may be.

wild_spot 02-24-2010 08:16 PM

Quote:

Not if the Dun is a true dun there would be no cream gene to give you a buckskin. Now the Dun COULD be a dunskin in which case you could get a Buckskin dun skin and so on but if he is a true dun then no chance of a Buckskin.
I'm good with cream genes but I don't really know much about dun. Does it act similar to the cream gene? Lightening the coat significantly? Or just adding the primitive markings - Leg/wither barring, countershading, dorsal stripe? You can have dun over black base + agouti + cream which would give you a dunskin, yeah? How would dun present over a true black with no agouti?

Oops missed the part where you mentioned a dunskin.

What would you call a black base + no agouti + 1 cream gene + dun? So a smoky black with dun? Or does dun only express on agouti... Hmmm. Off to google :]

nrhareiner 02-24-2010 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wild_spot (Post 562791)
I'm good with cream genes but I don't really know much about dun. Does it act similar to the cream gene? Lightening the coat significantly? Or just adding the primitive markings - Leg/wither barring, countershading, dorsal stripe? You can have dun over black base + agouti + cream which would give you a dunskin, yeah? How would dun present over a true black with no agouti?

Oops missed the part where you mentioned a dunskin.

What would you call a black base + no agouti + 1 cream gene + dun? So a smoky black with dun? Or does dun only express on agouti... Hmmm. Off to google :]


To have a Dun you have to have the agouti or you would have a grulla.

If you have a dun with no agouti and the cream then it would be a smokie grulla.

The Dun gene dose lighten the coat but not as much at the cream dose. Some duns do not have all the primitive markings but MUST have a dorsal stripe.

Ok I think I hit all your questions.


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