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roro 05-07-2010 10:09 PM

Article on Warmbloods: not suited for dressage?
 
I truly find this article ridiculous, but I'd like to see what you all think. The author touches on a whole smorgasbord of issues in rather opinionated way.

Here's the whole thing:

Rollkur (Hyperflexion) - What it is and where it came from.

An excerpt:

"Now we can understand a few relevant reasons people these days prefer warmbloods. First, the warmbloods inherited longer necks (often a little flexed already) due to being bred for light draft (agricultural) use, which helps them lean and pull. This is also present in more extreme cases in the coldbloods (heavy drafts), which is why they are also used for that type of work.

The second important reason for using warmbloods is that their temperament is somewhat dull (which was needed for the work on the farm), and so they are less prone to refuse or fight the inadequate rider. Once programmed to do a particular work they become almost like some biological computers, which is great for the farmer, but not something that a decent rider would prefer, because of the dulled responsiveness of such animal. (Today’s warmbloods are predominantly the offspring of the agricultural types rather than the riding type, since between the two world wars there was hardly any need for riding horses, while agriculture still lacked the technology of tractors and pickup trucks. Hence, the breeders adjusted the breeding to the agricultural type that they could sell; simple economics.)

Since these warmbloods have longer necks and duller temperaments it is easier for them to perform this nonsense that is called dressage these days.


These foolish dressage riders are completely ignorant of the fact that most of the warmbloods, as well as all coldbloods, are front heavy. They were bred to lean into the harness and not bred for riding. They flex at the neck and lean forward because of their body weight distribution, which was bred into them, and because the work load was placed behind them rather on the top (simple physics and zoology).

In short, these horses are completely unsuitable for riding purposes, especially for dressage, which explains all the injuries in dressage.



All the injuries in dressage horses can be very easily explained. As mentioned above, most horses are not suitable physically for the sport, but because they have the tendency to flex in the neck they are preferred. The weight of these horses adds to the problem, since we are talking about extreme lateral stress when riding in dressage rings.

To add to this, the flexing of the neck sets the horse’s head below the impulsion line, throws the horse more on the forehand (desired for pulling), and then when you add the natural attribute of the front-end-heavy warmbloods it’s no wonder that so many go lame.


Many of these horses are shod with wedge pads and bar shoes to prevent injuries of the overstressed front end. The fact that most of those in the higher levels of "this dressage" shoe horses to prevent injuries to the front only testifies to the fact that these horses travel very heavy on the front end due to all the attributes described above.

In reality one has to wonder just how tough some of these horses (very few lucky ones) have to be when managing to do this for few years. However, most will break down from this riding that is actually supposed to make the carrying of the rider safer for the animal. As it is, the opposite is true. "

As mentioned before, I do not agree with it. All I see is someone theorizing with little or no factual evidence.

Your thoughts and comments on this article?

Spyder 05-07-2010 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roro (Post 627506)
The second important reason for using warmbloods is that their temperament is somewhat dull (which was needed for the work on the farm), and so they are less prone to refuse or fight the inadequate rider. Once programmed to do a particular work they become almost like some biological computers, which is great for the farmer, but not something that a decent rider would prefer, because of the dulled responsiveness of such animal. (Today’s warmbloods are predominantly the offspring of the agricultural types rather than the riding type, since between the two world wars there was hardly any need for riding horses, while agriculture still lacked the technology of tractors and pickup trucks. Hence, the breeders adjusted the breeding to the agricultural type that they could sell; simple economics.)

Maybe the author would like to get on Salerino.

One of the most nervous and spookiest Warmbloods out there.

With so much TB and other hot blood being infused into the modern WB there are far far from dull.

Those that do find them dull, do so because they haven't the strength of core to be able to actually ride them and prefer the TB that goes without much encouragement leaving the rider to not have to do too much.

halfxpassxdiva 05-13-2010 01:49 AM

So are you trying to say that the TB is inferior to the WB?

roro 05-13-2010 01:50 AM

How is she implying that TBs are 'inferior' to WBs?

halfxpassxdiva 05-13-2010 02:49 AM

Quote:

Those that do find them dull, do so because they haven't the strength of core to be able to actually ride them and prefer the TB that goes without much encouragement leaving the rider to not have to do too much.
Seems like shes saying people who cant ride, ride TBs. Not wanting to start a fight. Just trying to understand what she meant. Sorry if it came off rude

rocky pony 05-13-2010 03:53 AM

She's not saying either is better. She's saying that they are different, that TBs are more forward and have more go which requires less push from the rider (though at the same time they have a tendancy to require more holding back as well), while WBs are less hot than TBs and require more effort, on the part of the rider, to ride (but do not need to be held back the same way).
But she also says that Warmbloods have a lot of TB blood in them. They tend to have a nice balance of hot (TB) and cold (Draft) blood to give them energy and athleticism while still having calmer minds.

Kayty 05-13-2010 06:00 AM

Article did get a giggle out of me and some raised eyebrows too. Seems the author is stuck a few centuries ago. Many WB's are purpose bred for dressage now, not 'agriculture'... saying that they are all 'front heavy' is also a big laugh, the purpose bred types are built uphill, with their weight naturally carried over their hind legs, they would struggle to pull a plough through a muddy field I would say!!

As for their 'dull' temperaments, you cannot tell me that all WB's are dull and easy going!!! There are many being bred for paces and conformation at the moment, that have a 'firecracker like' temperament, and are just as sensitive and ready to blow as a TB, but seemingly without that neurotic loss of brain trait many TB's seem to have when faced with a confronting situation.

Now to halfpassdiva who seems to be getting her knickers quite tightly knotted over an innocent TB comment. Have you ridden many WB's? Spyder's comment is entirely valid on a 'general' scale (on the 'whole'), yes there are exceptions, the TB's that ride like WB's, and the WB's that ride like TB's. But more often than not, the TB enthusiast will merrily go bagging the WB's calling them 'dumb bloods' but will hit a world of trouble when faced with putting a so called 'dumb blood' though a dressage test. They require a very different way of riding. Neither is inferior. Heck, I'm a WB girl myself, I have a love for the solid boned, naturally uphill and engaged types they are bred into purpose bred WB's. However I just purchased my third off the track TB, and absolutely ADORE him, he ride's like a WB and I have been asked many a time in the 2 short months I have owned him, if he is a WB. I actually prefer riding him to the WB mare I was competing last year and she had been up to medium/advanced dressage compared to my trusty TB's straight off the track education. So nope, I am definitely not breed prejudice so don't leap on me saying I think TB's are inferior ;)

halfxpassxdiva 05-13-2010 11:41 AM

Oh I understand.Thanks.
Im sorry if I came off a little rude.:/

I didnt mean to sound bunched, so my apologies again.

roro 05-13-2010 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayty (Post 632036)
Article did get a giggle out of me and some raised eyebrows too. Seems the author is stuck a few centuries ago. Many WB's are purpose bred for dressage now, not 'agriculture'... saying that they are all 'front heavy' is also a big laugh, the purpose bred types are built uphill, with their weight naturally carried over their hind legs, they would struggle to pull a plough through a muddy field I would say!!

As for their 'dull' temperaments, you cannot tell me that all WB's are dull and easy going!!! There are many being bred for paces and conformation at the moment, that have a 'firecracker like' temperament, and are just as sensitive and ready to blow as a TB, but seemingly without that neurotic loss of brain trait many TB's seem to have when faced with a confronting situation.

I was just thinking, I would pay good money to see an Olympic Plowing Competition for WBs, I bet this author would be ecstatic :lol:

~*~anebel~*~ 05-15-2010 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roro (Post 632671)
I was just thinking, I would pay good money to see an Olympic Plowing Competition for WBs, I bet this author would be ecstatic :lol:

I would love to see what Salinero would do with a plow behind him :lol:


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