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Should I use a martingale on my pony?

10K views 70 replies 17 participants last post by  Horseycloe 
#1 ·
Hi all! I have a pony called Spider. He is a 3 (turning four this year) year old Australian Riding Pony. Every time i hop on him he rears, and then all through the time i ride him he doesn't. He also bucks out to. So because he rears and bucks, should i use a running martingale? Or as some people call it, rings? Please no rude posts, i'm just asking for some simple advice...
Thanks,
Horseycloe
 
#42 ·
that is EXACTLY what I was getting at justsambam. Thank you! Honeysuga, I was trying to explain that a RM is not always used to mask a problem. My horse does not have a problem that needs masking and yet she wears one and goes well with it.
 
#44 ·
All of the words you are using are just wrong, lol. In the situation we're referring to, there is no other way to correct the problem except getting a different horse.

its not a fix period, in eventers case. She can't fix being female. I mean, she could lift wieghts, become some body builder just to say she can control her mare without a RM, but then that just makes her look a bit stupid. People might say "why not just use a running martingale, silly?"
 
#45 ·
The martingale, on Wildey, has nothing to do with control. I can do everything without it. It is simply there so that when he is in a high adrenalin situation, he doesn't do the Arab head flip. Without it, he does. With it, he doesn't even try. It never influences the reins unless he does try.
 
#46 ·
Originally Posted by maura
This works, when it works, only if you time the "whack" when the horse is coming up off the ground. The reason that it works, when it works, is the horse believes it has hit itself on something overhead that it can't see, and become reluctant to lift it's front end off the ground for fear of hitting itself again.

It's not a technique I would ever recommend to less than a very experienced, confident rider because it's very hard to do correctly and very easy to do wrong. Done wrong, all you're doing is reinforcing the bad behavior and increasing the liklihood that the animal will flip over.

I also would never recommend this technique without thoroughly investigating the root causes of the behavior. It's highly likely that this otherwise sweet and agreeable pony has a reason for this behavior and is trying to communicate it to his rider.


^^This. Assuming of course that the problem is behavioral, not a reaction to pain.

I'm not sure I understand this reply to my post. I was in no way, shape or form validating the suggestion of this technique to this poster.

The OP is a relatively green rider; not the experienced, confident rider I specified AND root cause for this behavior has not been investigated.

It's irresponsible to recommend this technique given the circumstances.

We've also already establish that a RM won't help with the rearing problem and based on the video, doesn't look like it's otherwise indicated, so there's no need to rehash the old RM debate for the OP's sake.
 
#47 ·
I wouldn't hit him in between the ears with a crop. And i know the way i mount is ok. He only rears when i mount him and i'm in the round ring. Today i hopped on him and he just stood there. You guys do know when he rears i only mean 2-4 inches of the ground haha. And today he only reared when he got annoyed. Because last month he got an allergic reaction from a grass and he had bumps all over him. And now they've turned to scabs, so when i was standing still and my dad and friend were picking the scabs and he got annoyed so he reared to get away from them and telling them to stop. So, it kinda is a protest. It's his way of saying stop or no. I know that sounds weird, but he has a human like personality haha. Thanks for all ur help!
 
#51 ·
That was the first ever time i had jumped him.
I'm not jumping him any higher! And i'm going to start doing more jumping next year, when he's turning five. I like doing barrel racing. So i think I'll stick with that. I know jumping a young horse/pony is bad for their legs, but that was the first time i had EVER jumped him. It's not like i was jumping him 1 metre! God, i can't even jump that much higher than the video. I can jump E grade (Australian E grade at pony club) and maybe if i have more jumping lessons, i could jump higher. So don't worry, i do not won't to hurt my pony. If i did hurt him and it was my fault, i'd probably kill myself because i never want to hurt him.
 
#53 ·
If anyone here seriously thinks those crossrails are going to damage this pony's legs, you guys are incredible. And I'd like some of the crazy lemonade you're drinking!

Secondly, DO NOT hit this horse on the head. The idea that he will 'think there is something up there that he hit and not do it again' is RIDICULOUS. Anyone ever seen a horse rear in a trailer and bust his head open? And then do it AGAIN AND AGAIN?

Not the correct response, here. Figure out why he's rearing and fix that.

Secondly, before you do serious work with your pony, have you thought about lessons? I would like to see you more secure in the tack--you can not train a horse without having proper position. It's like trying to teach someone how to throw a ball when you don't know how to do it yourself.
 
#55 ·
I have had heaps of lessons :) I haven't had a lesson in a while though. And i don't want to hit him on the head, thats just not right! Spider would hate me if i did that, and i wouldn't do it to any horse. I'm probably going to delete this thread because so many people are arguing over it. I'll just have to find out how to delete it.....
 
#54 ·
Gidji, going for a 'trot and pop' over a couple of cross rails hardly qualifies as jumping. There is barely any added stress on the pony from trotting over cross rails at that height. It will NOT cause damage to the pony unless the rider starts getting confident and cantering him over bigger rails ;)

Hitting him as hard as you can on the head? Wow. I just got an image of a kid flinging all her effort into belting to poor ****** on the noggin. Equinphile (can't remember how to spell your username off the top of my head sorry), don't state one thing (Whack him as hard as you can on the top of the head with your crop) and then when people start at you change your opinion (Oh I meant just tap him, I said hit in case someone just tapped lightly so it had no effect). You entirely went back on your original comment. If others had not pulled you up on that comment, the OP may well have gone off and bashed her pony as hard as she could over the head. Luckily the OP doesn't appear the be that idiotic.
I think you also asked a few pages back what an egg does? It gives them a shock into thinking they've broken their skull. However it's a matter of timing as maura siad a few posts back re- hitting him on the head with a crop.

To the OP. Do not ride your pony again until you get a saddle fitter to check your saddle. You sound like you are not aware that saddles need to be fitted for each and every horse, and then, particularly with young/green horses, you should have you saddle fitted every 6 months as the horse will be constantly changing muscle bulk. If you saddle is too wide for him, it may be pushing down onto his wither and putting undue pressure along his back, and if it is too narrow it will be pinching his muscles along his spine and shoulders. A VERY good excuse to rear.
When you get on, get on via a mounting block. Even if he is only little. Mounting blocks aren't just for helping you get on. They help to stop the saddle being dragged across the horse's back as you mount. Getting on from the ground means you will be putting excess pressure on one stirrup for an extended period of time compared to if you mount from a block, thus dragging the horse's muscles across his back. Again, VERY good excuse to rear! I get on every horse, whether 11hh or 17hh, with a mounting block, and if possible get someone to hold the opposite stirrup so there is as little movement across the horses back as possible. Also avoid 'clomping' down into the saddle. Sit slowly into the saddle rather than thumping into it.
 
#56 ·
Horseycloe - I'm glad you aren't going to whack Spider on the head. He seems like a really nice, sweet pony. I also don't think you're doing damage to him by hopping him over a couple of crossrails. Should you go much higher? No. He's young and needs to be eased into jumping, not thrown at higher and higher fences when he doesn't really know what he's doing.

If you could get a brush up lesson once in awhile I would definitely go for it. I've been riding for 23+ years and I'd LOVE to get back into lessons.

As for the mounting. If your saddle doesn't fit that great and you're mounting in the typical way it is VERY likely that you are wrenching his back as you mount. I'm he is using rearing to say "stop" (like you said previously about the scabs). I would use the mounting block and get your saddle fit. Hopefully that will fix your problem.

I really like your Spider by the way. Love to find a little one like that. :D
 
#58 ·
Agreed with Kayty completely, very well said, and horseycloe I hope you don't delete this post because there is lots to be learned here about the right and wrong way to do things. But please get that saddle checked.

Another pro mounting block point to make is that if you mount from the ground, and grab pommel and cantle, you can actually twist your tree in your saddle or something along those lines. It's not good for your saddle.
 
#61 ·
Okay, I'm back, and armed with my full keyboard.

First off, the Tom Thumb bit is not a snaffle bit. The term "snaffle" is added on by manufacturers and retailers to trick people into thinking that it is a nice, kind bit. The fact of the matter is that it isn't a snaffle, and it isn't to be used like a snaffle.

Let's talk about the cheekpiece:
With a snaffle, the rein attaches to the same hole as the headstall - therefore when you pull with one pound of pressure, the horse is going to feel one pound of pressure.
With a leverage bit, you attach the headstall to one place, and the reins to a spot below the mouthpiece, and you have a curb chain attached under the headstall, near the mouthpiece. This completely changes the dynamics of the bit; when you pull with one pound of force, depending on the length and shape of the shank, the horse feels at least two. So, when you pull with 5 pounds of force, the horse feels at least ten.
Next let's look at what happens when you pull:
With a snaffle, when you pull the cheekpiece, you are translating exactly that pull to the horse's mouth.
When you pull the rein to a leverage (shank) bit, you are pulling below the bit, which twists the mouthpiece, and engages the curb chain. This means that the signal is not equal to what you expect pulling on the rein.

Here is an article I wrote about different cheek and mouthpieces:
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/bit-information-snaffle-english-type-bits-36522/

When you are training a horse, you want to be very - VERY - clear about your communication. You want your rein to convey exactly that signal to the mouthpiece - thus you need a true snaffle bit. A curb bit should not be used to direct-rein, or keep contact with. A curb bit should only be used when the horse has learned to neck rein.

Here is an excellent article about the Tom Thumb bit:
Today's Horse - The Trouble with Tom Thumb
Please take a moment to consider this.

When you are mounting up, you are twisting the saddle, and putting lots of pressure on the horse's back; the pony might be a bit back sore. If the pony moves forwards, the usual response is to pull back on the reins... given what I've explained above, it is likely that the horse doesn't understand the extreme pressure on his mouth.

For your horse, I would recommend a full cheek french link bit; or, if you're worried about the cheeks getting stuck on anything, a Dee ring french link.
 
#63 ·
Aha. Tom Thumb bit. I would bet dollars to donuts that's part of your problem. I will come back and type out a correct response when I have a full keyboard. I bet someone will beat me to it though.
Bottom line? TT bits are not to be used on a green horse.
JDI - She expressedly said it wasn't the western type, and she is from Australia, hence I am assuming it is the Australian TT, which is a perfect starting bit. It is comparable to a full check or half spoon.
 
#66 ·
Fulmer bit? Fantastic bit then, and my previous post (based off the American TT) is invalid, except for the part about mouthpieces; it could be that the pony doesn't particularly like a single joint... but I doubt that is the entire problem.
I would honestly take a look at exactly how you are mounting up:
- are you poking your toe into her side?
- are you leaning heavily into the stirrup?
- even if someone is holding the other stirrup, there is quite a bit of torque on the horse's back.
- have you tried a mounting block?
 
#69 ·
Fulmer bit? Fantastic bit then, and my previous post (based off the American TT) is invalid, except for the part about mouthpieces; it could be that the pony doesn't particularly like a single joint... but I doubt that is the entire problem.
I would honestly take a look at exactly how you are mounting up:
- are you poking your toe into her side?
- are you leaning heavily into the stirrup?
- even if someone is holding the other stirrup, there is quite a bit of torque on the horse's back.
- have you tried a mounting block?
Yes haha. I'm using the Australian tom thumb, and i knew it was a good bit becase the person who trained Spider was using it. And he has been riding all his life! I may be poking my toe into Spider's side, thank u for that tip! I'll check if i am, but yesterday when i rode him he just stood there like he was 15 years old and couldn't move! haha. I'm going to try a mounting block, because that may help. Thank u for those tips, they r very useful :)
 
#68 ·
Horseycloe, sorry for sounding rude. I don't know you so I'm in no position to judge you, but personally I don't support young riders like yourself who are uneducated with young ponies. I've seen far too many accidents. And personally I didn't like the way you rode in the video.

I think that if you listen to the advice on here from JDI, WS etc they might help you solve your problems. But I would also seek out the help of a trainer because it just sounds like you're not qualified enough to deal with a rearer.
 
#71 ·
I can assure u Gidgji i am qualified to ride a young pony who only rears 3 inches of the ground :) I rode a pony last year that was known to be a BIG rearer and if someone leased him, in a week he'd rear two times. He's flipped over and broken a bone in the owners body. (NOTE: This is not my pony it's a pony that i used to ride) And when i rode that pony, i rode him for about 1-2 months and he NEVER reared. He was perfect for me, and the owner said i was the youngest rider to control him as well as i do.

I do want to have more lessons (especially on Spider) but i can't get a hold of my coach. She is a EFA approved dressage coach and has taught me soooo much! But i just can't get a hold of her. We've rung numerous times, her phone must be broken :? I'm not sure. and i can understand ur worries for me. I am a bit young for a rearing horse, but at least i can control him. So don't worry, if he starts to make rearing a BIG habit, then i will contact a trainer to get the rearing out of him :)

Thanks for all ur help everyone!
 
#70 ·
As I said in my previous post, which happened to take up a good 10 minutes of my study time so I'd appreciate it if you read it after I defended you also. Please don't ride until you have your saddle fitted, and don't get on without a mounting block.
yes your friend holds the other stirrup of their saddle when you get on their horse to stop the saddle being wrenched across the horse's back thus inflicting spinal, musculature and nervous damage to the horse. It IS a good idea to hold the stirrup. You have all the answers you need from this thread. Now go and use them and if they don't work, THEN come back and ask again with more specific details and video if possible.

Again, as I said previously, I would put my money on it that your saddle is causing him discomfort, and when you get on their enhances his discomfort by dragging the saddle across his back. You don't want to get a young pony into the habit of rearing out of pain when you get on, as it may well become firmly established in his mind set. So think of your pony's welfare, well being whatever you want to call it, and do NOT ride him until you have your saddle correctly fitted, and invest in a mounting block/crate of some description.
 
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