The Horse Forum

The Horse Forum (
-   Horse Law (/horse-law/)
-   -   If a person agrees to contact me in case of a sale and doesn't, do I have any rights? (

westonsma 05-14-2010 02:21 PM

If a person agrees to contact me in case of a sale and doesn't, do I have any rights?
I make it an effort every year to rescue, rehabilitate, retrain, and rehome a horse, at least one.

Last June, I bought an OTTB, I named Moose, fattened him up, got him over rain rot, and rode him some. When it came time for my family to move to Montana, knowing it would be too cold for him there, my dad agreed to let me continue to keep him on his pasture.

Within the first month of moving, I called my dad to see how things were getting along, and to make sure he didn't need anything for Moose, hay, wormer, etc. My dad says, "Oh, my buddy come pick him up."


"Zimmerman's got him. He'll be fine over there, said his little girl needed a TB to run speed events on."

"So he's buying him?"

"No, I said he could have him if he would come get him."

"Do you have any idea what you're doing?!?!?! >>>>>>>>"

Then, I called Mr. Z. I made sure he clearly understood that Moose was a rescue, and that if there was every ANY problem, to contact me, and I would make other arrangements to pick him up. He agreed. He agreed to contact me if there was any reason he didn't want him, any reason he was looking to sell him, any reason he didn't want anything to do with him any more.

So what the heck happens? My sister, (Mr. Z's daughter and my sister are best friends) calls me up to tell me Mr. Z sold Moose? So now I'm livid, wondering what the HELL I can do to get him back? How in the world is someone gonna take a horse for FREE, from someone who didn't even OWN the horse in the first place, then SELL it, and KEEP THE MONEY?! How the HALE does this happen?

Any idea what I can do to get him back? Now that we're back in Kansas I've got the facilities myself to keep him and he won't be freezing in the winter in Montana!


themacpack 05-14-2010 02:27 PM

This is going to be a bit of a fuzzy situation because even when you have rights in these messes it is often a whole other story actually having those rights enforced.
Did you have a bill of sale giving YOU ownership of Moose when you purchased him?
Did you, at any time, transfer that ownership - if you had it - to your father, or in any way give him legal authority to act as your agent in regards to the horse?
The agreement between you and Mr. Z is, at best, a rather shaky verbal agreement - which, by making, you were actually implying consent to him having the horse (voiding the issue of whether your father had the right to transfer the horse in the first place).

Speed Racer 05-14-2010 02:31 PM

I'm sorry dear, but I think you're out of luck.

Since you don't have any paper trail, and the only contact you had with Mr. Z was verbal, it's a he said-she said type of situation.

The courts will argue that you agreed to give the horse to Mr. Z, since you didn't make any fuss about the animal being with him.

For future reference, get all agreements in writing, and all communications should be in written form, be they e-mail or regular written correspondence.

It won't help you in this situation, but it should keep something like this from happening again.

FWIW, I'd be livid too.

themacpack 05-14-2010 02:35 PM


Originally Posted by Speed Racer (Post 633378)

FWIW, I'd be livid too.

Most definitely!

westonsma 05-14-2010 02:35 PM

I have a bill of sale from when I bought him, as well as a verbal promise to registration through JC from the previous owner. I did not transfer ownership from myself, ever.

I was under the impression that my dad was having Mr. Z care for Moose as long as he could use him, but that I would get him back if ever they decided not to keep him.

THAT was the agreement. The agreement wasn't, "Oh, yeah, you can have him."

And all this over a short period of about 3 months, he still should have let me know he was selling him, right? I mean, morally?

So here's my thing, I really want to call Mr. Z, find out WHERE Moose is, to be sure he doesn't end up back at auction, and request that Mr. Z forward the money to me, due to the agreement he made. BECAUSE I turned all my expenses for him in on my taxes this year!

Speed Racer 05-14-2010 02:40 PM

Of course you're right, morally and ethically.

What Mr. Z did was completely wrong and he owes you an explanation, if not recompense.

I'd be tempted to go off on the old assclown, but that's just me. :evil:

I don't recommend that approach if you want to find out what happened to the horse, though.

Good luck. I hope if nothing else, you can get peace of mind.

westonsma 05-14-2010 02:45 PM

Thank you, SR. Thank you TMP!

I just didn't know where else to turn! I know he's just a piece of junk, nothing but $200 horse. But he's MY piece of junk, nothing but $200 horse!

And he'll get a call, I'll know who the newest owner is, then I'll for sure give him a piece of my mind.

kevinshorses 05-14-2010 03:50 PM

Does Kansas have a brand inspection law? If it does and they did not get a brand inspection then you still own the horse and you can track it down and take it from whoever has it and they can go after Mr. Z (as can law enforcement) for what they paid. However, If you don't want to make waves with your dad or his buddy then make it clear that you expect the money from the horse and let it go at that. For what it's worth you should have taken him to Montana. They raise alot of TB's there and alot of them stay outside all winter.

churumbeque 05-14-2010 05:37 PM

Sounds like Mr Z sold stolen property. Your dad doesn't sound like much of a winner to do something like that without your permssion. I would threaten him with selling stolen property and if I had time I would persue small claims court if you could at least get your sister to testify on your behalf.

MissH 05-15-2010 10:49 AM

West - let us know if/when you end up calling the infamous Mr. Z. I want to know what happens here. This is a super crappy situation.

As for your Dad, why would he just ship your horse off to his buddies place? Any ideas? And if Mr. Z was "his buddy", would he not feel terrible for what has happened? (I ask these questions only out of curiosity, I mean no disrespect whatsoever)

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:24 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome