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-   -   Why don't registries accept certain colors? (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeds/why-dont-registries-accept-certain-colors-55444/)

CloudsMystique 05-19-2010 06:08 PM

Why don't registries accept certain colors?
 
I'm going to pick on AQHA and APHA, since I know what they do and don't accept.

Why would they accept buckskin and palomino, but not smoky black? Why cremello and perlino, but not smoky cream?

I understand why they don't want to register horses that are "smoky cream champagne dun roan gray", haha, but why not smoky black and smoky cream? They're just as common as buckskin and palomino or cremello and perlino.




The TWHBEA has it right (for once!): http://www.twhbea.com/colorsAndMarkings.htm

haviris 05-19-2010 06:39 PM

They DO register them, just not under those color names.

Smokey black is just black w/ a cream gene, so they'd just be registered as black. And personally that is how I think they should be registered, the cream doesn't affect the color, it would be like registering chestnut/sorrel that carries agouti w/ some special name. Sometimes I think things are made more complicated then they need to be.

Don't know on the smokey cream, I'm guessing they register then as perlino, cremello and perlino are the better known double delutes. Many people can't tell the difference in the colors anyway, and I'm guessing they tend to go more on visual then on genetics.

CloudsMystique 05-19-2010 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haviris (Post 638269)
They DO register them, just not under those color names.

Smokey black is just black w/ a cream gene, so they'd just be registered as black. And personally that is how I think they should be registered, the cream doesn't affect the color, it would be like registering chestnut/sorrel that carries agouti w/ some special name. Sometimes I think things are made more complicated then they need to be.

Don't know on the smokey cream, I'm guessing they register then as perlino, cremello and perlino are the better known double delutes. Many people can't tell the difference in the colors anyway, and I'm guessing they tend to go more on visual then on genetics.

Except that they can produce completely different colors... If the horse is going to be used for breeding purposes, it can complicate things.

Registering smoky black as black is understandable, since they are genetically black... although it might confuse the owners when their black horse pops out a yellow foal after being bred to a black/bay/chestnut.

But smoky cream is weird... They register them as perlino, but why? They don't even have the same base coat.

It's not like it would be a huge deal to write a different word on their papers...

PaintHorseMares 05-19-2010 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haviris (Post 638269)
They DO register them, just not under those color names.

Smokey black is just black w/ a cream gene, so they'd just be registered as black. And personally that is how I think they should be registered, the cream doesn't affect the color, it would be like registering chestnut/sorrel that carries agouti w/ some special name. Sometimes I think things are made more complicated then they need to be.

Don't know on the smokey cream, I'm guessing they register then as perlino, cremello and perlino are the better known double delutes. Many people can't tell the difference in the colors anyway, and I'm guessing they tend to go more on visual then on genetics.

Exactly, and to be honest, there are already so many 'accepted' shades that I have a hard time picking some of them out.

PaintHorseMares 05-19-2010 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CloudsMystique (Post 638273)
Except that they can produce completely different colors... If the horse is going to be used for breeding purposes, it can complicate things.

If you're that serious about color when breeding, you're going to want to DNA test them and not rely on the registration, in my opinion.

CloudsMystique 05-19-2010 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaintHorseMares (Post 638281)
Exactly, and to be honest, there are already so many 'accepted' shades that I have a hard time picking some of them out.

Except that they aren't just "shades." They're completely different colors. Shades are light bay, red bay, dark bay, etc. and I wouldn't expect those to be differentiated between.

Smoky black is as different (genetically) to black as buckskin is to bay, and as chestnut is to palomino. Smoky cream is as different to perlino as black is to bay.

I was just wondering - that's all. If I had a smoky black or smoky cream horse, I'd be annoyed if I had to register it under a different color.

haviris 05-19-2010 07:04 PM

I agree that it wouldn't be a huge deal to them to ad another color, they aren't the same! BUT the color is just a bonus, it isn't going to hurt anything if they get an unexpected palomino, that is why if it's that big a deal the owner can test. Many stallion owners test their horses to give mare owners an idea what colors they may get.

Now for something like Frame overo that will affect the health of the foal, then it is VERY important!

It's not always that reliable to look at the colors on the peds. anyway, many horses are registered w/ the wrong color even when the correct colors are on there. Just because the breeder doesn't know what color it is, the registry screws up, or they register when it's still a baby and the foal color misleads them.

CloudsMystique 05-19-2010 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haviris (Post 638290)
It's not always that reliable to look at the colors on the peds. anyway, many horses are registered w/ the wrong color even when the correct colors are on there. Just because the breeder doesn't know what color it is, the registry screws up, or they register when it's still a baby and the foal color misleads them.

Yeah, that's definitely true!

haviris 05-19-2010 07:08 PM

But if you are going to register a smokey black under a different name (other then black that is), why not register a chestnut/sorrel w/ the agouti under a different name? Why is cream so special? And if we're going to have smokey black, why not smokey grulla?

haviris 05-19-2010 07:08 PM

I'm slow, I can't reply fast enough!


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