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daroczy 02-14-2008 03:06 PM

Horse colour restriction - Why not allowed?
Hi to everybody,
I'm a horse owner and breeder from Hungary, Europe, and I would like to ask you a question. Why is that if I have a palomino, buckskin or other single dilute mare I cannot breed it to any cremello stallion? I meant why is that all double dilute stallions have the notice "he will produce 100% guaranteed buckskin, palomino or smokey black with bay, chesnut or black mares, but semen is not available for palomino, buckskin or smokey black mares"? In Hungary there are only a few cremello stallions, and not with a very high quality, that's why we would like to import semen for our single dilutes – but they are not available. Is it only some kind of jealiousity (the breeder does not want anyone else to have a double dilute)?
I would be please if any of you answered my question, forgive me for my bad English. Thank you

Sara 02-14-2008 04:25 PM

I have no idea, but its an interesting question and I'm looking forward to the answer:P

AKPaintLover 02-15-2008 01:00 AM

I never knew that! I would also be interested in the answer. Sorry I am of no help. :)

Kyani 02-15-2008 11:10 AM

Sounds like jealousy to me! I can't think of any other reason.

appylover31803 02-15-2008 11:32 AM

I've also noticed that other studs, can only be bred to a specific breed and specific colors too. I don't understand it. I believe it was a national show horse that could only be bred to other NSH that were bay. Or something like that.

Daroczy, what if you e-mailed the people with the stud and asked them? I'm thinking that would be a way to know.

daroczy 02-15-2008 12:35 PM

I've tried to e-mail any of them, and ask the question but they did not answered. Of course I did not ask "Are you so jealious of your cermello" :) but no one of them wrote me back.
First I tought that the reason might be some kind of inheritable disease which can appear in double dilutes, but many breeders breed ceremellos and palominos or rother single dilutes with each other, even cremello×cremello, and they have healthy foals. Of course they breed only with their own single or double diluted mares...
Answering to your question about crossing bay with bay, I see no idea. Of course there are some heritable genetic disease among some type of colours, like white foal syndrome or lethal white syndrome. And there are other facts that appaloosa and paint coloured horses are more sensitive to sun, they may have more often malignant skin tumor in old age than bays, chesnut or other solid colours. But I never heard that two bays might not be crossed.

JustDressageIt 02-15-2008 07:56 PM

I could be completely off base, but for some reason I think this might be slightly correct:

I believe that there is a lethal dilute gene... that is, some dilute colored horses (seen in smokey-coloreds, cremellos and palominos) carry the lethal gene - they will carry one normal gene and one lethal gene, so they themselves won't be affected but will carry the lethal gene. Horses with the lethal gene die well before reproductive age, so cannot reproduce.

Say X (capital X) =normal gene, and x (lowercase x)= lethal gene... dilute horses are either homozygous normal (XX) or heterozygous normal/lethal (Xx).

If two homozygous normal (XX) horses are bred together, there is a 100% chance the foal will be heterozygous normal as well, so it will not carry the lethal gene.

If a homozygous normal (XX) is bred with a heterozygous normal/lethal (Xx), there is a 50% chance the horse will be homozygous normal (XX), and a 50% chance the foal will be a carrier, that is a heterozugous normal/lethal foal(Xx). The foal has a 0% chance of having homozygous lethal gene (xx)

If two heterozygous horses are bred together (Xx), the foal has a 25% chance of being homozygous normal (XX), 50% chance of being a carrier (heterozygous normal/lethal, Xx), and 25% chance of being a homozygous lethal (xx) and will die.

Whew! Alright well that confirms it, I miss doing genetics in school!!

I could be completely wrong with this, but I think it's at least a little right?


It's part of the whole Lethal White Syndrome (LWS).. more here:


umm.. nevemind? Here's an excerpt, stating that cremellos, palominos and smoky-coloreds are not affected by LWS.. at least, that's how I read it?

"Healthy horses which appear to be entirely or mostly white are usually either cremellos, perlinos, smoky creams, ivory champagne, maximally-expressed sabinos, or the rarer white horse. None of these color genes are linked to the LWS gene."

GAH I don't know anymore. My Punnett Square stuff still stands, maybe it's right. I'm very curoious to hear the answer now!!

Supermane 02-15-2008 09:05 PM

Nope, dilutes aren't connected with LWS. My first pony was a cremello gelding so my mother and I did a lot of research.

I can't really think of any reason...

daroczy 02-18-2008 05:36 AM

True, LWS may happen to only the dominant white coloured horses. There is a W dominant gene which causes the horse to be white - but never palomino, smokey or buckskin. This gene overwrites ALL other colour genes in heterozygous format, even the grey also. But in homozygous format it's lethal. Foals abort within the uterus,or born dead. So:
Ww - white horse
ww - any other coloured horse
WW - no horse

Other lethal syndrome is the "white foal syndrome", the foal dies 2-3 days after being born, that's because her gut or intestine has a dead end and they cannot digest and defecate. And before dyying, they suffer a lot with colica, so it's a horrible, terrible thing to have a white foal syndrome... :cry: I don't know exactly, but it's connected with some special paint colour, maybe tobiano, but I don't want to say foolish...

Besides all, I thank you all your replies and still waiting for answers...

daroczy 02-18-2008 05:40 AM

Dear Supermane, what do you think about it: we had have also a cremello pony with blue eyes, she had fully pink colour, but around her eyes there was a black line, just like she was eyelined - like on egyptian wallpaintings. And she was born from two grey Welsh D-s. Was your pony like this?

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