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katieandduke 08-09-2010 10:47 AM

BIT ISSUE! please help!
 
hey everybody! well i was hoping to find get some help! here's the issue.. i have used a straight bit(not sure on what it is called) but it have a very slight curve in the copper mouth piece that has o-rings.. i have used this bit since i got my horse(3 1/2 years)... well... i have started to get more serious in my riding and training with duke and would like him to start listening again. but it seems like with this bit he thinks he doesnt have to stop when i tell him to and when i try turning him to "correct" him.. the bit will just come sliding out of his mouth.. we used a snaffle with o-rings during lessons and i ride duke in it alot and he does fine.. except for stopping.. it seems no matter what bit i use he will NOT stop on time.. so during lessons he is being used in a snaffle and i am riding him in the straight only because i am not so much concentration on controlling him with the bit but with my legs.. he does great except for the stopping.. but.. shouldnt a horse only be used in one bit? not switched back and forth.. if that is the case then the trainer and I are gonna have a talk and also..

what should i do to get him to stop.. i am wanting to get a snaffle and once he starts listening and responding better switch him back..

my trainer tried a Kimberwick Uxeter Bit.. but she said Duke completely shut down.. ill post a picture of it up soon.

so i was thinking either a Pelham bit or a snaffle with short shanks and a curb chain

my friend told me a curb chain will get him to stop like i want. but i dont want duke or i to rely on that chain to get him to stop..

today i am going back to groundwork.

so any ideas?? ill post pics in a reply.. sorry this is so long but appreciate the help!

katieandduke 08-09-2010 10:51 AM

2 Attachment(s)
these are the two bits im thinking about getting..

katieandduke 08-09-2010 10:52 AM

2 Attachment(s)
by the way.. duke is an english and western horse. and is 19-20 yrs old..

the first bit is the one i used for many years except it has a STRAIGHT mouthpiece.. and the second is the one he shut down using..

Sunny 08-09-2010 02:33 PM

First of all, there is no such thing as a snaffle with shanks. A snaffle has a 1:1 pressure ratio, as in, for every pound of pressure you exert, the horse feels one pound of pressure. With shanks, you get 1:3, 1:4, etc, depending on the length of the shanks and purchase. This is because, in a shanked bit, a horse feels more pressure than you exert. A mullen mouth can be a snaffle because, with no shanks, it's a 1:1 ratio. Second, the problems you are having with stopping aren't from the bit, they're from lack of training in the "stop department." If you try to move to a shanked bit or any harsher bit, it may help for a while, but eventually your horse will go back to how he was because it's a training issue. I would stay in whatever bit he is the softest in, and just working on training. First, make sure he is VERY responsive to "Whoa" on the ground. Then you can move to the saddle. Lots or walk/stop and trot/stop transistions. Hope this helped.
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Sunny 08-09-2010 02:45 PM

Sorry to double post, but.....I would stay away from both of the bits you are considering. The transistion from a snaffle to a bit with those shanks is going to be very intimidating, and likely scary, for your horse. The poll pressure will be new to him, and in the wrong hands a lot of damage can be done. The second bit you are considering.....do you know how to use two sets of reins? That is a pelham and you have reins for the snaffle action and the curb action. That would be much better than a straigh up shanked bit, IF, and this is a VERY big if, you know how to properly handle two sets of reins. However, I don't recommend either of the two.
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payette 08-09-2010 03:15 PM

Try a snaffle with full cheeks so it doesn't pull through his mouth. Also, if he won't stop, try turning him with only one rein to stop.

katieandduke 08-09-2010 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunny (Post 714034)
Sorry to double post, but.....I would stay away from both of the bits you are considering. The transistion from a snaffle to a bit with those shanks is going to be very intimidating, and likely scary, for your horse. The poll pressure will be new to him, and in the wrong hands a lot of damage can be done. The second bit you are considering.....do you know how to use two sets of reins? That is a pelham and you have reins for the snaffle action and the curb action. That would be much better than a straigh up shanked bit, IF, and this is a VERY big if, you know how to properly handle two sets of reins. However, I don't recommend either of the two.
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well.. after i spent about an hour reading different information i now feel like an idiot... hahahaha... i now realize the difference between a bit with shanks and one without.. ah.. wow.. haha.. and you're right... duke was used in many different things before i got him.. the previous owner told me he was used as a barrel racer then a cutting horse... but whatever he was used in i know it has made him very "tough/hard" on the bits.. so ... starting today i went back to the basics.. just did some turning on the forehand then hindquarters, then backing(since he also refuses to back but did well today), and walk and stopped him in-hand alot.. i could punch myself for not going back to the basics when he was younger! it would probably be easier then!.. duke has progressed through the years.. but he needs just basic training..

i do not... nor did i realize that the pelham has a two-rein system.. nor did i know how to use it.. i am going to read up on it and ask a trainer about it.. but i think i will stick to what duke is in..

im thinking switching to a snaffle... like the copper snaffle with the o-ring... but... in the past when i would work on bending the bit would just come out of his mouth... and i was using light pressure... i havent noticed if the snaffle they use in lessons does that.. but should it be slipping out?


thanks for all your help! i really appreciate it!

katieandduke 08-09-2010 03:40 PM

aha..... to SUNNY.... forget my question about the snaffle pulling through his mouth... payette answered that question haha...


THANK YOU TO BOTH OF YOU THAT HELPED ME!

Sunny 08-09-2010 04:46 PM

No problem! :) Also, if you really like the loose rings, you could use bit guards with it and it will help keep the bit from pulling through his mouth, as well as keep it from pinching.. Or you could just use a full-cheek. I really like both.
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katieandduke 08-09-2010 10:51 PM

ok thanks! i think i will try bit gaurds first! =]


also, i see you live in alabama! so do i! =] haha


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