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horse will not respond to pressure
hi i have been looking for advice on this and came across this forum i have had and worked with many many horses even pushy ones but they have always responded to ground training but not this one i end up really having to shove him and be really firm voiced , hes not botherd in the slightest about a whip or pressure of any kind i have done level one parelli before but i cant gain his attension or get him to respond and i end up getting nowhere and feeling cruel hes the sweetest gent 4yrold ex racer i have had him a year , hes also not very responsive to the leg i hate nagging him and a whip has no effect at all he just not enthused to learn what am on about i really want to teach him to be more responsive on the ground as it makes things so much more easier and then i can teach him dressage movements from the ground at a later date . hes not nasty with it he just does not budge even the end of a whip really pushed into his chest does not have an effect .
anyone any advice ??
Are you sure you are giving him a solid whack?
I tended to have the problem where I thought I was whacking a horse pretty hard, but in reality I was just giving them a good tap.
All horse are different, and some need more "persuasion" than others. That in no way implies a horse is not sweet. I know quite a few horses that wouldn't hurt a fly, but when it comes to working them, you have to break out the spurs and crops and lunge whips to convince them that doing what you want is a lot easier than resisting.
I am in NO WAY implying you should beat a horse to listen to you. I am merely stating that some horses have more of a stupporn streak than others, and please don't take as the other way.
Welcome to the horse forum, btw. Hope this helped you out.
Make sure you are rewarding for every single attempt. If you are trying to get him to back on the ground and he even shifts his weight back...release the pressure and praise. Then move on to something else. Come back and ask him to back again. As soon as he starts ****ing his weight, release the pressure but keep telling him to back.
As far as lateral movement, I have no luck with this on the ground. None. The only way I can get a horse to side step with any kind of efficiancy is from the saddle. I take the ask tell demand WHAP approach. Someone on here reffered to it as 'ask with the hair, then the leg, then the heel, then the whip'. Dont take no for an answer. Again, you *must* praise every attempt and once you have one attempt. LEAVE IT. When you over do it...you just confuse them. They figure if they did it right, you wouldn't be asking again.
The old guys who taught the present-day high-profile horsemanship "stars" - the Dorrance brothers (Tom & Bill) weren't about pressure: they were about "feel" & release. I'm just now thinking about getting True Horsemanship through Feel. Go to lesliedesmond.com. Leslie spent years learning under Bill, & according to them, what's happening with your horse is normal, because the way of pressure just "works until it doesn't". "Feel & release", however, works permanently.
hi thank you for such quick replys .. refering to the am a giving a firm whack i seriously am i once had the problem of napping in one certain place and i thought right i do what i was taught hold it like a teniis racket and give him one hard whack and he didnt budge he just looked to the side as if to say is that it !!! he had a mark on his arse and i felt so nasty cuz i had done that and it had got me nowhere !!i do the parelli ask and then increase the pressure until he moves but i get seriously nothing not even a lean if anything its a lean towards the pressure if he does move i do stop asking and he ends up with nice stoke / rub on his neck and nice good boy words as i learnt dont pat from parelli .. it took him ages but he now adores carrots do you think maybe use these to gain his attension more ?? or will it be too much of a distraction ??
I agree with knack here; I worked with a QH colt for a year, and he was the same way...he was SUPER sweet, smart and I don't think he would have hurt a fly. BUT he was lazy...It took alot of persuasion to get him to get his feet moving. His sister was the opposite...she would move with just a simple gesture of your body, but she could get snarky about it, as well...
You may just have to really increase your pressure-remember to go soft to 'harsh'; ie, click, push with your body, use stick; with your stick and your body, and let off as soon as he gives you the slightest attempt. He will learn, but sometimes it takes a bit more push on your part.
When a horse refuses to move away from pressure, it is a respect issue. Respect issues do not always have to involve ill manners as much as ignoring cues.
Since you mention poking him in the chest I'm assuming you are trying to get him to back up? When I teach a horse to back up on the ground, I use a rope halter and a good heavy lead rope. I shake the rope softly, then build the vigor of shaking, if there is no response to that, I flick my wrist to get the rope buckle to swing up and tap the jaw. "Tap" being the key work here. No, do not swing hard enough or get close enough to bust their jaw with it, but a thunk with that is often enough to get the point across. If not, a move to a crop, tap, tap harder, then a a good solid smack.
You are saying you feel cruel, but keep in mind that you are dealing with a good sized animal. It is very hard to physically injure a horse just hitting them with a whip/crop, it may smart them a bit, but it won't be permanent. Keep in mind also that while it may start out as laziness and unresponsiveness to cues now, but later on will result in attitude because they realized they are bigger than you.
Firstly I will say I agree with getting as firm *as necessary* to be effective. I also thoroughly agree with rewarding him, as well as just negatively reinforcing(removing pressure) for 'right' things and ensuring that his 'smallest tries' work for him.
As I said first, I agree with being as 'firm as necessary'. I do see punishment as a valid tool at times. But it is one that comes with many 'side effects'. So I believe it's important to understand fully the psychology of what you're doing when using punishment, to use it only when *necessary* ie not as a matter of course in training(because there are other better, more effective methods generally) and use it in conjunction with other methods, such as positive reinforcement, so it is better understood and there is less chance of permanent 'side effects' such as fear of the handler, the tool, whatever.
Yes a reward system is important. Being that it was already mentioned i did not feel the need to add to it, but in case my stance was not clear; Correct, but do not punish, and reward for even the smallest step towards progress.
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