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mcgillrobyn 08-16-2010 07:01 PM

huge horse with a mind of his own
I recently bought my 19 yr old daughter a 4 yr.old 17.1 hand hanoverian/tb, he weighs about 1700 pds, he was said to be unbroke, however breaking him was just to easy. He did not flinch for anything. My daughter worked on the ground with him for a few months with manners backing up all the usuals. She started walking on him and there was not a problem. Did this for a few weeks trotted off a time or two rather strong he was but stopped when asked. My daughters trainer got on him as he was wondering off and just not paying attention as a green horse would do. He did the same for her she put some leg on and he lost it, started circling the ring in a gallop went threw the standards headed straight for the fence and kept going right threw it. Threw the trainer over the fence as he went threw it. This is not an inexperienced trainer she has been successfully training green tbs for 20 yrs. To my disappointment the trainer will no longer train him as she has openly admitted she does not no what to do with him as she has never experienced any thing like this and has never been on a horse she could not stop. When doing ground work he makes his mistakes and learns very quickly, normally does not repeat bad behavior but in the saddle he no's his power. Ii do no he needs to have no riders on his back and never should have at this stage, but with no trainer we are in big trouble. My daughter is a strong rider but has never trained a horse from green and just does'nt no the steps to follow.
Of coarse now everyone is talking about how rotton our horse is and will not amount to anything which is far from the truth, he just needs a trainer who no's the propper steps. If anyone has any ideas for a trainer in the southern niagara area or feels they can help I sure could use it. thanks

Knaagdier 08-19-2010 03:05 PM

I'd have to say the safest thing to do is let your daughter ride him while on the lunge-line. (if he is completely trained with lunging) then work on verbal cues, and transitions from the halt walk trot, trot walk to the halt, with a clear voice of 'stop' everytime you ask for the halt along with the aides. It simply seems that he has the ability to learn, but simply goesn't understand the aides for stopping yet :)

On the lunge line there will at least be someone to help control the horse if anything does happen, and your daughter will be able to start training him to respond to the cues from his back

draftrider 08-20-2010 02:33 AM

He is a baby. Babies get confused. IMHO you are rushing him too much. I don't even back my horses til they are 4, and I don't expect much til they are at least 5. We just work on stop, go and turning. Go back to basics with him. I think he has some holes in his training and you need to go back to the beginning.

MissPhoebe 08-20-2010 07:03 AM

I agree with Knaagdier. I think that the lunge line would be a good place to start with your daughter on his back, but please make sure you have an experienced horse person on the end of the lunge line too so they can attempt to control the situation if it gets out of hand. I wouldn't want to see the lunge line get dropped if he pulls too much and then you will have him loose with the "scary snake" chasing him :twisted: Maybe use of a round pen? He might behave in a smaller space and I think he would have a harder time breaking through it.

I think that you can most certainly beginning working on his back. He is 4 and it sounds, from your description of the situation, that you certainly aren't going to be overworking him under saddle anytime soon. With baby steps, ground work and lunge work you will probably still spend a lot of time getting him going. There is always a big debate in he horse world of when to start horses, so I'm not going to get into it here, but I think at 4 you are more than good to go.

Finally, a quick question, what strategies does your daughter (did your trainer) use when he is getting "out of control"? Just a pull back, circle, head to butt?

Good Luck!

franknbeans 08-20-2010 08:18 AM

I do know one, in the Finger Lakes area, but doubt he would go that far, and he no longer has facilities to keep them at his place......will ask him next time I see him, and will also ask his dad and mom-dad is my trainer, but he no longer does unbroken horses.....he is older, and now stays with more of the finishing of the horses, but one of them may know someone.
I would think your trainer, with all her experience would know of someone in the area.....and, a "green TB" is different from an unbroke WB, IMO.
I would agree that in the meantime, you should go back to the VERY basics. Groundwork, respect, etc. It sounds to me like this horse has no clue or respect for pressure, flexing, bending (which would prevent him running into a fence, most likely).

sarahver 08-20-2010 09:29 AM

Was he long lined at all? Sounds like he needs a few weeks on the long lines, in an enclosed round yard and with someone at his head to prevent him running off. I know of people who will long line for a week and those who long line for months, depends on you and the horse and how well he is responding.

What happened was extremely dangerous, I am so glad no one was hurt. Sounds to me like he needs many more rides in a round yard (AFTER the long lining) with someone in the middle holding the lunge line. When he is transitioning up and down well on the lunge, take it off but keep riding in the round yard. Riding in the round yard is a good way to start a young horse, not because the fences are necessarily any better but because they are a smaller area, it looks much less like a space to take off running to a horses eye.

mcgillrobyn 08-21-2010 09:48 PM

Thank you all for the great tips. I compleatly agree with you all. My daughter has been working him on the lunge line all week and he is responding well. thanks again

mom2pride 08-22-2010 12:04 AM

If he wigged out over bit/rein pressure, or the trainer's leg on him, then he has some major holes in his training, that need to be taken care of. He was probably just very confused, as it sounds like the trainer just got on and rode off like he should "know" more than he obviously does.

Step back, and regroup in your training 'progress' may need to teach him to line drive, so he learns stopping and turning with the bit, before your daughter attempts to ride again. Desensitize his sides to various 'things' touching him. Sacks, plastic, etc...lower the stirrups so they can really move with him, and can touch him all along his sides.

I wouldn't quite give up on him yet...he's only 4...still very much a baby, so just take your time. If you can, look for another trainer in your area, and if you can, send him or have the trainer come out and work with him; glean as much as you can from the trainer, as well, so you have plenty of stuff to work on when the trainer is gone.

mcgillrobyn 08-24-2010 09:23 PM

Thankyou for your tips. What is line driving?

Solon 08-24-2010 09:38 PM

I say go back to the basics. Like Mom2 said there appears to be some holes in his training. And it almost seems like theres a bit too much rushing.

The person above was right about the youngsters getting confused easy.

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