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Which Bit for an MFT

6K views 37 replies 11 participants last post by  hccumminssmoke 
#1 ·
Im thinking about changing the bit I'm using for my MFT, she does OK but I get the feeling she doesn't really like the one I'm using because she shakes her head a lot, it's not just the nodding action. I'm using a shank bit and I think it may be to severe for her. I've read the Book on gaited horses and I am still confused. :?
I'd just like to get your opinions on what works for you.
Thanks a lot:)
 
#2 ·
First, when was the last time her teeth were done.

It also could be that the bit is too loose and she is trying to get rid of it. Just a couple thoughts.

It is less the length of the shank and more the lightness or heaviness of the riders hands.

I have a 3 year old RMH in an 8" shank Robarts walker bit. I am very light with my hands and have had no problems.
 
#3 ·
The bit choice for any horse is driven more by the use of the horse than any "bitting philosophy."

What are you doing with the horse? If you're going to be doing precision things (dressage, equitation, obsticle courses, etc.) then you want a high level of "communication" with the mouth. If you're going to be riding endurance you would likely focus on long term "comfort." For speed events you're going to want quick authority. So, what are you doing? :)

Remember, too, that the bit is only part of your "communication suite" with the horse. The leg, seat, and balance are also in the mix. The most effective riders, on the trail or in the arena or riding to the hounds or any where else, can use the hand, leg, and seat independantly and in coordination.

When I got my first Walker I had a long shanked curb bit 'cause that was what all the "experts" told me I needed. Fortunately I learned fairly quickly that the "experts" were full of beans. While the power of any bit is in the hands of the rider you can do a lot more damage to the mouth with a lever than without one. I strongly discourage the long shanked bit; I've yet seen a horse that can't work on Pelham with a 1.5" curb. If you're going to ride in contact (and some disciplines require it) keep to a "minimalist" bit. Your horse will thank you for it. :)

G.
 
#4 ·
When I got my first Walker I had a long shanked curb bit 'cause that was what all the "experts" told me I needed. Fortunately I learned fairly quickly that the "experts" were full of beans. While the power of any bit is in the hands of the rider you can do a lot more damage to the mouth with a lever than without one. I strongly discourage the long shanked bit; I've yet seen a horse that can't work on Pelham with a 1.5" curb. If you're going to ride in contact (and some disciplines require it) keep to a "minimalist" bit. Your horse will thank you for it. :)
Thanks so much G. I get so sick of hearing "it's all about the rider's hands." If that were true we wouldn't need different kinds of bits.
 
#6 ·
I would check the teeth first, I have a mare right now that is crazy if you use anything in her mouth. Her teeth are a train wreck. She is not used right now until I can get an equine dentist lined up which is like (excuse the pun) pulling teeth. This hurts me a great deal as she is a blast to ride.
 
#26 ·
There was absolutely wrong with this comment. You offered your opinion, and stated that it works for your horses. You really should have left it here.



If you are too insecure on your horse then no bit will work.
I have never seen a horse that is not happier in a bitless bridle and if you use your cues properly you DO NOT NEED A BIT.
You do not need a bit to get the correct headset, or for collection or to do reigning.
It is my opinion that if you cannot get your horse to do these things in a bitless bridle you are not riding the horse correctly.
You should be able to do all this without a bit or pulling and yanking on the reigns.
Bits just make the horse unhappy and the rider feel like they have control.
Sorry I am not about to change my mind and agree with you, bits are control for the rider, they do not help the horse or make the horse happy
I suppose you have "shoes" on your horse "for your peace of mind"
If you need a bit, you need it. Chances are the horse does not.
These are all extremely ignorant and close-minded statements. This idea of yours that you have an open mind is laughable.





Incidentally, I have two horses. One I ride in a bit, and the other I ride in a hackamore. One is barefoot, one has aluminums in the front. One I ride in a Cashel soft saddle (treeless), and the other I ride in a custom-fitted saddle with a tree.

As you can see, I am NOT biased. I have no dog in this fight. I use what works for that particular horse, end of story.

If someone came on here and said the same things you've said - only praising bits instead of bitless - I would say the same thing to them, because I don't have anything against bitless/barefoot/treeless. My problem is with your close-mindedness and your holier-than-thou attitude.
 
#8 ·
I ride, and train, all of my horses in a simple Eggbutt Snaffle. I've ridden TWH, MFT, and a QH all in my one, simple, copper mouthpiece snaffle.

Why?

Shank bits work on the principle of leverage. In my opinion, 99% of horses worked in a shanked mouthpiece are working in a bit that is far too much for the horse. I recently rode a green MFT in a shanked, ported bit. At the slightest touch of the reins (asking to whoa, very light handed) he reared. Why? The supposed 'patient owner/trainer' had spent the last two hours with his hands in his mouth, cranking on that shanked bit until the horse was gaping. I didn't have the nerve to do such a thing to the poor horse, so when I lightly asked him to whoa, he whoa'd, with only two feet on the ground.

I prefer the Snaffle bit because it's lightweight and sits nicely in the mouth. It's perfect for working green, or trained-but-not-finished horses. Great for trail horses, if you need to put a little pressure on your mount you can without it going up-up-and backwards because holy damn what is that horrendous thing in my mouth.
If I need to whoa with a little more force, or do an emergency one-reined stop, I'm not jamming a buttload of pressure into my horses mouth due to shanks + a port. You simply cannot direct rein in a leverage bit without causing the horse extreme discomfort. A snaffle is meant for direct reining.


In my opinion, the shanked bit should be left to the professionals in the advanced show ring. It looks pretty on a horse and conveys subtle rein cues better than a snaffle bit.

This site has a great article on bits:
Bits and their Proper Use

The pivot point to where the reins are attached at the end of the long shank
-------------- (divided by) --------------
The pivot point to where the curb chain is attached at the end of the short shank
A curb with a 5" rein shank and a 1" curb shank will generate a force ratio of 5:1. Thus a 20 lb. pull on the rein will result in 100 lbs. of pressure being developed by the curb's "vise grip" onto the horse's jaw.

The 'gaited horse bit' is a bunch of BS. It's for people who are scared of their horses, henceforth get a nasty shank-n'-crank bit, and want a 'uberpurdyheadset'. If your horse doesn't arch and collect in a gait naturally, you have a lot more training to do. Gaited Horse Bits are like the Rollkur of the gaited world. Unnecessary and improperly used.
 
#9 · (Edited)
You got some good advice already... I just wanted to add something...


What kind of mouthpiece are you using?

MFTs are known for having low palates, thick tongues, and overall small mouths. Many MFTs (including mine) can't stand single-jointed bits because of this. A lot of MFTs dislike ports, as well... although mine is fine with them.

I pretty much have to use either a double-jointed bit or a straight-bar mouthpiece with my MFT or she'll be very unhappy.
 
#10 ·
Again I am going to say it, try a bitless bridle. If you are too insecure on your horse then no bit will work. I have never seen a horse that is not happier in a bitless bridle and if you use your cues properly you DO NOT NEED A BIT. I think if you could just try one you would find your horse to be much, much happier, relaxed and very willing. You do not need a bit to get the correct headset, or for collection or to do reigning.
 
#11 ·
Actually, I've had horses go both ways. Loki hates bitless. He just doesn't like working in it, he's much happier with something in his mouth. I'm actually thinking about getting a double jointed, or a straight bar, like Clouds mentioned. He's a bit of a quirk, he'd probably be pleased as pie with a solid mouthpiece. He does very well in my regular eggbutt, but why not make him even happier? :D

On the other side, Sammy (TWH) hated bits (teeth fine)! He did relatively well in a snaffle, but was much happier in just a simple halter, or fluffy nosepieced mechanical hackamore. He neck reined and worked very well off the legs, so it worked fine with him. If he was greener in terms of working off cues, I would have looked for a more appropriate bitless setup.
But, since he was essentially finished, he didn't require anything special. I felt most comfortable working in a halter with him, it allowed me to lunge him easily and was fine if I needed to use the reins to whoa. Light pressure, much less than if I was asking him to back on the ground, was enough to work him.

It really varies from horse to horse. My QH mare works fine either way, she's pleased in her snaffle, or just working around in a halter. Again, she's more finished in cues, so she doesn't require a special or really proper setup.
 
#12 ·
Bitless works for some horses if all you want to do is ride in a straight line. For anything more they are pretty useless.

Comparing a bit to a bitless rig (like the Dr. Cook) is like comparing a high quality, digital communication system to a tin can telephone. Both can work at a basic level, but only one can go beyond that. :)

Sometimes a sidepull is an alternative. It has the same lack of precision as the proprietary "bitless" rigs but is much cheaper. Some can also accomodate a bit without reins and this can be valuable if you are trasitioning from bitless to bit.

Several folks tout the hackemore. This is a very problematical device because it can be incredibly powerful but look pretty benign. It, too, is a poor device to teaching the horse to bend.

Since many training problems stem from a failure to bend (or a failure to yield to pressure) I am not a fan of anything that "bypasses" these important lessons. If there is a mouth pathology the prevents use of bit then bitless is viable. If it's just a "training shortcut" then it's a Bad Idea.

The advice about mouthpiece is very important. Many folks forget that a "snaffle" means no leverage, not "broken mouthpiece." Also, if you have small mouthed horse you don't want to cram a thick, "humane" mouthpiece in there. I know a couple of folks who had to abandon the KK bits as they are made mostly with the WB in mind and the bars are quite thick.

Personally, I like the Myler line of bits. They have a wide variety, are very well made, and they have some good advice in some of their publications. The downside is that they are not cheap. Still, the bit I'm using right now is over ten years old and shows little sign of age. So maybe quality doesn't cost, it pays. :)

G.
 
#16 ·
Personally, I like the Myler line of bits. They have a wide variety, are very well made, and they have some good advice in some of their publications. The downside is that they are not cheap. Still, the bit I'm using right now is over ten years old and shows little sign of age. So maybe quality doesn't cost, it pays. :)

G.
I use the Mylers and love them. In fact we have a 12 year old that the previous owners were using a snaffle. They said not to use anything stronger, well he wouldn't yield, drop his head or stop. We put him in a Myler training bit that has the noseband across so when he starts throwing his head up when going into a trot you can get him to drop his nose and tuck to achieve collection which he never did before. It is a very mild bit which uses a small amount of leverage. Now he is on the trail, holds his head as a QH should and is learning very well how to tuck and collect. We will soon move him into another Myler without the training aid and I know he will be a MUCH different horse.

If your horse can ride bitless that is fine, but as others have stated some horses just don't recognize anything but the bit so stating everyone should ride bitless is like saying "don't buckle your seat belt because I don't think you need to". To each his own is my motto and forcing your opinion on others doesn't help their situation. As a suggestion it is taken as given.
 
#13 ·
Where do you get the idea that all you can do is a straight line in a bitless bridle. I do all kinds of bends, circles, serpentines, leg yielding, even neck reigning in a bitless bridle. It is my opinion that if you cannot get your horse to do these things in a bitless bridle you are not riding the horse correctly. You should be able to do all this without a bit or pulling and yanking on the reigns. Bits just make the horse unhappy and the rider feel like they have control.
 
#14 ·
Bits just make the horse unhappy and the rider feel like they have control.
If a bit makes your horse unhappy (and they have no medical/teeth problems), then you're doing something wrong. Bitless doesn't work for every horse... some horses need much clearer signals than others, and it's physically harder to give clear signals with a bitless bridle than with a bit. While I applaud you for having a smart horse with the ability to learn these things bitless, I don't think it's a realistic option for every horse out there. To say that all bits are inherently wrong is ignorant and close-minded.
 
#17 ·
Sorry I am not about to change my mind and agree with you, bits are control for the rider, they do not help the horse or make the horse happy, I could tell you lots of stories but why bother, if you are "afraid" and not open to the bitless bridles, I will not try to change your mind. I suppose you have "shoes" on your horse "for your peace of mind" and ride in a saddle with a tree, well I ride bitless, shoeless and treeless and I am proud of how happy all of my horses are. Everyone in the horse world has their opinion, that is mine and my horses are very happy, they all come from the field when I call them, they all love to be ridden, they are all happy, happy horses. With that being said, don't criticize me, I am only expressing my experiences. If you need a bit, you need it. Chances are the horse does not.
 
#18 ·
Sorry I am not about to change my mind and agree with you, bits are control for the rider, they do not help the horse or make the horse happy, I could tell you lots of stories but why bother, if you are "afraid" and not open to the bitless bridles, I will not try to change your mind. I suppose you have "shoes" on your horse "for your peace of mind" and ride in a saddle with a tree, well I ride bitless, shoeless and treeless and I am proud of how happy all of my horses are. Everyone in the horse world has their opinion, that is mine and my horses are very happy, they all come from the field when I call them, they all love to be ridden, they are all happy, happy horses. With that being said, don't criticize me, I am only expressing my experiences. If you need a bit, you need it. Chances are the horse does not.
Well, you certainly hit all the Politically Correct buttons, don't you. :wink:

There is certainly no interest on my part in changing your mind. It's clearly closed to any rational argument. Others, however, might want to review the matter and make their own decisions.

I know my horses are happy when they are in a good pasture eating good grass. Beyond that I can only guess. And you can't really do anymore, regardless of your claims to the contrary.

I follow only one philosophy, the Golden Rule of Equine Husbandry: You give the horse what it needs, when it needs it, and in appropriate quantity and quality. All else is commentary.

I've posted photos of our equine uses before. I invite you to do the same. :)

G.
 
#25 ·
I think your being insulting and are attacking peoples personal opinions. Your suggesting that our horses are abused and unhappy. Your suggesting that we are close minded and unable to grasp new concepts.

Perhaps you should go and drink Parelli's kool-aid, and learn some manners while your at it. Only a close minded person would be unable to see others opinions, and most of all, be unable to agree or disagree politely and with respect of said opinions.

I'm sure your horses are just pleased as punch. I ride with shoes, tree'd saddle, and bits, thank you. My horses are happy, healthy, and well cared for.
 
#29 ·
I'm all for bitless but you know, some horses just prefer bits. My boy from time to time gets fussy and I'll put him in his kimberwicke and then he'll let me know when he's tired of that and I'll go back to my Dr. Cook.

But there are some horses out there that absolutely do not like bitless. It should always be about what works for the horse.
 
#32 ·
To all of you THANK YOU-
Satchmo-I've looked at them but can't make up my mind-and I don't think it's for her, she has a mind of her own sometimes.
twogeldings, thanks a lot, good info, have been thinking about getting a snaffle as well.
Cloudsmystique-could u put a pic up of the one you are using, 'cause I'm thinking that might be what she needs.
 
#33 ·
I AM SORRY IF I STARTED SOMETHING ON HERE- IT WAS NOT MY INTEND TO HAVE PEOPLE ARGUE BACK AND FORTH-I APPRECIATE EVERYONES COMMENTS.
But I do have to say that bitless is NOT for every horse, some horses do need some reenforcement.
Mystique-once again could u post a pic of yours that u use on ur MFT.
Thanks
 
#35 ·
Satrider, I'm sure you know this, but I think it needs to be said again. Some horses don't like being ridden bitless, it isn't always a matter of needing reinforcement. I ride Soda in a double jointed snaffle (much like what CM posted). It's an extremely mild bit and I rarely need more than a twitch of my fingers to direct him. But he hates bitless bridles (Dr. Cook in particular). I think it has something to do with the pressure around his face, but I could be wrong.

I'm sorry for bring it up again, but I don't like the conception that if a horse isn't ridden bitless it's because they "need" something stronger. For him it wasn't a matter of strength, more of how the pressure was applied.
 
#36 ·
Cloud--thank you
Aluminum ported curb with swivel shanks (I've tried both a low port and a high port and she liked both):



I am using one similar to this one, only --and that was actually that I was worried about--is- the mouthpiece is more like a snaffle, and I thought that might be pinching her too much, even though I've noticed just this last Saturday-she was doing pretty good and did not move her head too much. I have a regular snaffle bit and may try that but I have to buy a leather curb strap first. Thanks again.:)
 
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