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Bad experience with Amish horses...

69K views 96 replies 47 participants last post by  mbender 
#1 ·
Horses I primarily own/work with are rescues in need of serious repair (usually mentally as well as physically). I've worked with several horses that came from the Amish and have been absolutely terrified of people... Once, I was leaving an auction and I observed three or four Amish men attempting to load a weanling. It wouldn't get in, so they proceeded to beat the crap out of its behind with a stiff whip... I was disgusted.

All the Amish-broke horses I've worked with have the same eye, and the same attitude. They are reluctant, wary, and stressed the entire time I'm around them. A lot of the drafts that didn't make it as cart horses (I'm assuming) won't let you go anywhere near their rump, and God FORBID you swing anything back there (be it intentional or not). My experience is that they break their spirits, THEN they break them to ride. They may not all be this way, but the ones I've dealt with have been.

There's only one horse that wasn't like this: A big Belgian named Mac. He was pigeon-toed from pulling before he was fully grown, and he had terrible ground manners, but he was such a derp that he probably didn't care whether he was being mistreated or not.

I understand that horses are very important to the Amish way of life, and they are vital 'tools' to their lifestyle... but seriously, I'm sick of these abused horses with broken spirits (which take forever to mend, mind you, if they are fixable at all).

My question is this: has anyone had similar experiences?
 
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#2 ·
hmmmm this is interesting. To answer your question, no I havent but I am aware that they feel the horse is a big part of their life.
Not that I am trying to condone their behavior but if you think, they are set in what the 1800's? and if you think of how everyone would have treated their horses in the 1800's their behavior would be typical....
Its just a thought
 
#3 ·
No.

The horses I know that were Amish trained are good reliable creatures. No broken spirits, etc.
I actually had my first ever driving lesson last night using a pony whose previous job was with an Amish family.

He was pigeon-toed from pulling before he was fully grown


Or he was pigeon toed because that was what his conformation was and he would have been pigeon toed if he never did anything but stand in a pasture.


I will never get why so many people assume that everything that is different with a horse is the fault of some evil action on some abusers part.


Just because the Amish do not treat their horses like huge expensive pets like we do does not mean they (general they, because we all know there are bad people in every sector) are abusive asshats. Their horses are a necessary tool. It behooves them to take care of them.


 
#5 ·
Or he was pigeon toed because that was what his conformation was and he would have been pigeon toed if he never did anything but stand in a pasture.

I will never get why so many people assume that everything that is different with a horse is the fault of some evil action on some abusers part.
Erm, no, that's not what I assume. That's what I was told by the person who got him from the Amish.

I don't assume they're all like that. Definitely not. But every horse I've dealt with (probably because I primarily deal with rescues) that has been Amish-trained has been wary of people. I just can't get what I saw with the weanling out of my head whenever I think "Amish," but I try my best not to think all of them are like that...
 
#4 ·
Just because the Amish do not treat their horses like huge expensive pets like we do does not mean they (general they, because we all know there are bad people in every sector) are abusive asshats. Their horses are a necessary tool. It behooves them to take care of them



I agree totally
The amish around here treat there horses ok. No they don't get nice plush sawdust stalls and baths etc. But they are taken care of. The horse to the amish are thier main tool. Some take better care of thier tools than others. I have seen different areas of Amish living and you have the lesser and the better off. It reflects in thier houses,buggies,harness and horses... It's people that have no respect for animals period that abuse them...Wether Amish,Mendonite or us..:wink:
 
#6 ·
"The Amish" are individuals just as all other trainers are individuals.
I've seen good and bad - whether Amish or not.

As far as my experience specifically, my current boy spent a while learning to drive under the Amish, and he most definitely has NOT had his spirit broken any. He has the most "personality" of any horse I've owned. He's also one of the friendliest horses I've ever known - always coming up to you, checking you out. Thinks EVERYONE wants to be his best friend - whether human, horse, deer, or skunk (yeah, the smell is finally gone :lol:).

On the other hand, I was at the auction a few weeks ago, and a little mini was there being sold by the Amish. For a few hours before the auction right up until its sale, it spent almost the whole time trotting around the arena pulling a large cart with several children. He was puffing, dripping sweat, pinning his ears, and never got a drink of water. The ONLY time he got to stop trotting was when someone walked up to ask them a question about the horse (the few of us there together were going to start a round, have each of us go up and ask a few questions - just to give the poor thing a break). When someone mentioned that they should probably give him a rest, they responded "Oh no, we do this all the time. He's fine."
That horse probably isn't going to trust people for a while. I hope he found a good new home (we were really tempted to bring him home ourselves, but didn't think our BO would go for it :lol:).

But the bottom line is, there will always be trainers who treat horses well, and there will always be trainers who treat horses poorly. Culture, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc don't determine whether someone will be a good or poor trainer. Training, knowledge, and understanding of horses does.
 
#7 ·
But the bottom line is, there will always be trainers who treat horses well, and there will always be trainers who treat horses poorly. Culture, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc don't determine whether someone will be a good or poor trainer. Training, knowledge, and understanding of horses does.
Very well said!
 
#9 ·
There are some Amish in my area, but I have never personally dealt with any or any strictly Amish trained horses. I do know people who swear by Amish farriers, leatherworkers, and trainers. Its not unheard of for someone to send a green horse to the Amish to be saddle-broke, and then take care of subsequent training themselves.

While there are certainly cases of poor treatment of Amish horses (not that this makes them "special"... horses are mistreated every day by non-Amish), there is a strong economic motivator for the Amish to take care of their horses and to keep them healthy and strong. Their livelihood depends on "horsepower" in many cases - it just isn't logical to destroy something that essential. To draw a parallel, it would be like a non-Amish person going out to the garage and purposely ramming the family minivan into the wall a few times. Will it be as reliable? No... you might not get to work in the morning.

No, working Amish horses are not pets - they have to earn a living. If they don't, it's a waste. Coming from a farm background myself, I learned early that unproductive livestock that must be supported rather than contributing to the farm don't stay around long, my horses being the major exception. Again, to draw a parallel, its the same as if a pizza delivery company has a fleet of 5 cars, only uses 2, yet legally must pay insurance on the 3 idle cars. Its probably more profitable to sell the 3 idle cars and not have to pay for their isurance and upkeep.

Going back to the question of ninteenth century horsekeeping practices, at that time horsepower was supreme, and most horses did not have the luxurious lifestyles that most enjoy today. Then, as now, there were brutal and benevolent owners, riders, drivers, and grooms, but the horses still had a task that they were expected to perform. If they didn't, the owner effectively threw money out the window - something that the average person could not afford.

The working lifestyle was evident in the shorter useful lifespan of horses. Not too long ago, a 13 year old horse was considered to be nearing the end of his productive life - a 30 year old was quite ancient. Now, horses perform beautifully well into their 20's, and the 30 year mark is becoming less novel. The same extension in life expectancy can be seen in humans as we have moved from a lifetime of hard farm labor to a majority (in developed countries, anyway) holding less physically demanding jobs. Modern medical care plays a role for both as well, no need to discount that. :wink:

I'm not condoning ill-treatment by anyone, and sorry for the novel, but this is an issue that I have devoted some thought to in the past, from the perspectives of economics, history, and horsemanship. The Amish livelihood depends upon the horse as a capital good: a means of production - even under the best of care, such use has an effect that is generally not seen in recreational horses.
 
#11 ·
I sent my first horse to an Amish man to be broke, and that was the biggest mistake I've ever made. I have a five year old gelding and at the time he was two. We took him there in the summer and I would go back to visit every week. He was tied in a barn with six inches of poop on the floor. He had to stand there all day with no food or water. The only drink he got was with a bit in his mouth, so he barely got any water. That was what I saw in the first week. The second week I cam and one of the man's sons took him out and got on him and I noticed he wasn't putting any weight on his front right foot. I looked down and saw a six inch long gash on the inside of his front right leg. It was covered in pus and swollen. I was disgusted. I came with a trailer the next day and took my horse home, and when we got him back I noticed he had mange under his man. We had to cut his whole mane off so it would go away. I know a few Amish men who are very good with horses, but the majority are not.
 
#22 ·
I agree with the people that have said that horses are not a luxury for them, they are a necessity.

Amish people would only be hurting themselves by mistreating their animals. Common sense would tell me that the majority of Amish people would NOT abuse part of their livelihood.

I am sure that there are some that snap and abuse animals just because there are always a few bad apples, but I dont think their way of life would have lasted as long as it has with all of them abusing their horses *shrug*
 
#23 ·
The (ex) amish drafts I'm around every day are nothing like this. They are unbelievably affectionate. They love people... ESPECIALLY children. The only negatives I've seen is lameness/ stiffness (but that's expected from ex working horses) and they aren't good for the farrier. They are more comfortable when put in stocks as opposed to free standing while getting work done. One of the drafts in my pasture has to be sedated to get farrier work.
Our yearly draft horse auction is full of Amish families that have traveled far with their horses. One family becomes the stars of the show. Their horses have plenty of spirit. The father puts on a show in the ring to demonstrate the connection and loyalty of his horses. You can tell the horses are having a blast with it.
I don't know.... They may not do things as I do, but I understand that if I feel obligated to having my techniques respected, then I must respect the techniques of others.
 
#24 ·
Well, around here, from what I have seen at the sales, there are definitely good and bad. However, I do not think many of them take good basic care. JMHO. There is a tendency toward moonblindness in their horses around here, and their feet are bad, in at least 75% of the cases I have seen. This time of year they come to the sales with manes and tails matted with burrs and poo, and are pretty thin, despite the grass having been good all summer. But, we have more Mennonites than Amish, and I have heard that the care is different between the 2. As with anything, I am sure there is good and bad, just what I have seen.
 
#25 ·
Well, I have never even seen an Amish person, community, anything. But I hear from people they have good- broke horses. But I agree that it doesn't make sense to make something so weak or abuse it that you can't use it for work (which is what they use them for). No, their horses don't get pampered, but they do rely on them for daily tasks. Tasks that need to be done to make a living.

With that being said, most of the rescued horses in facilities come from homes with lack of basic care, feed, water, shelter and clean pen, and some people call it 'abuse' becuase the horse won't let you touch it's ears, but how about just skittish or flytiey from not being messed with much? Not just one 'race' does this, we all do. Especially now since the economy is so bad.
 
#26 ·
The first week I visited I was not aware that that is where he was staying full time. And he was not alone in the barn. There were several other horses, and at the time I was about twelve years old. Not a lot I could do about it. Like I said, I was NOT trying to generalize. That was my experience. And when I said a few are good, but the majority are not; obviously that was from my experience and experiences of people I know. Which means in my immediate area. If I thought the every single Amish horseman in the world was bad I would have said that.
 
#27 ·
I love the amish. In my area, we have some great amish horsemen. They take very good care of their horses and are excellent trainers. In my area, if you are looking to get a horse green broke in 30 days...you would send them to the amish. They wouldn't be able to teach a horse advanced reining manuvers or dressage...but they don't use that in their daily life. But if you want a horse to have a good solid walk, trot, canter, back and move off leg pressure...the amish are the best. I would absolutly send my horse to the amish for training. I was seriously considering sending my QH off for cart training with a nice amish boy when I was forced to sell him. For $600 that buys you all the time it takes to get him buggy trained (up to 90 days!) feed and board for that time aaaand a harness! What a bargain!

It has been mentioned on here before because this is not the first controversial amish thread. Saying that the Amish are abusive because there are a few bad eggs is like saying all Catholic priests molest children. It is an unfair statement.
 
#28 ·
My grandparents prefer that their Standardbreds that are not fast enough for the track go to our local Amish or Mennonites. They treat their horses well around us, and they seem fit and happy. Yes, I am sure that some aren't treated as well, but I bet not everyone in the horse owner world treats their horses like they are pets. Every group of animal lovers is going to see someone who doesn't fit into their perception of how animals should be treated.

We have had a Amish guy previously and currently use a Mennonite guy to shoe our horses. Grandpa, Grandma and I like him better because he comes, shoes the horses, and is done with it. He doesn't take crap from the colts, but he doesn't beat them. A very stern hey now! normally gets their attention and they stand up. The farrier we used to get, we never trusted to leave alone because he would hit the horse with his tools. He was just a regular Joe.
 
#29 ·
I've met some very happy, very spunky Amish horses and some very 'dead to the world' ones.

Just like us 'regular people' not every Amish person is a great trainer, and some may even treat there horses in an old-world kind of way. All depends. I personally like the Amish in my area, the horses all look quite happy and their always polite and friendly. Even when I come with my silly questions like "Excuse me sir, but do you know where I could possibly buy the stuff that goes under the buggy? The metal doohickeys?"
"The running gear?"
"Yeah that! :D"
 
#31 ·
I had a horse that used to be an Amish cart horse. She was the best horse ever once I put some time into her, she would kick when I put the saddle on her and she didnt like her ears touched..and when I first got her she would break cross ties right and left. But I don't know if she acted like that because of her Amish owners, or another owner. I do know she wasn't treated nicely before I got her. (She kind of had the Black Beauty life) But I think the majority of the Amish treat their horses for what they use them for...and that's work. And I'm sure working for the Amish is not easy.
 
#32 ·
I know a lot of good Mennonites, and though I've never personally seen any bad ones, I've heard many "horror stories". All my dad's horses have come from the Mennonites, and though they are a bit too high-strung and spooky for my liking (likely not the trainer's fault), they are all well-trained, and they all know what's expected of them in harness.

The thing with Mennonites/Amish is you rarely hear the good stuff-you only hear the bad. Everyone is so much more eager to say: "The Amish are terrible people! They abused my horse; now I can't get behind her or harness her or touch her face!" than: "I sent my horse to the Mennonites for training, and she came back with a good foundation and with a good start."

From my experience, they are a little rougher than the average person would be-just because to them (and should be, to us) horses are a tool, not a precious china doll that might get hurt or spooked, and they don't pussyfoot around them. If you can find the right trainer, the Amish are the guys to send your horse to for training.
 
#33 ·
I have a mare like that. She was very nervous about everything. The amish horses Ive seen have all been nervous. No maybe theyre not mistreating it, but if you are overbearing and short with them, they become afraid. Patience is the #1 thing in training and I find thats all the amish trained horses need. They dont treat them like they have a brain they just 'cowboy' them. Some horses are ok with that, some are not.
 
#34 ·
One more thing.

Horses that act scared, nervous, anxious, hyper, out of control after being trained by the amish are not always responding to abuse. They are responding to lack of work. One thing for certain, the Amish work their horses. Lots. When they are found to be lacking for one reason or another, the Amish usually take them to the auction. You take em home and love em up right and give them stall rest and feed them more than they need and 3 weeks later finally get on them and they are ready to blow! Its not because they were terribly abused or neglected...its because they are used to work and haven't had it in a month. Our society makes us look for abuse when it is not there. Work is not abuse.
 
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