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-   -   Tovero? Tobiano? Confusion with my mare! (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeds/tovero-tobiano-confusion-my-mare-67325/)

bronson3000 10-15-2010 05:34 PM

Tovero? Tobiano? Confusion with my mare!
 
Hey guys,

I just bought a 5 year old paint mare a few months ago, she is registered as a tovero but I never believed it because one of the criteria is one or both blue eyes, right? She does not have any blue eyes, she is almost all white with dark patches around her eyes and ears, and a few patches on either side, none on the legs.. I am wondering if anybody could help me classify what she is! I'm not too familiar with paint markings.

Left side:
http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg830/sca...=640&ysize=640

Right side:
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/607/profilev.jpg

Thanks!

ChevyPrincess 10-15-2010 05:41 PM

They were probably naming her that becuase she has no black markings on top of her back (that I can see) Sometimes they are born with blue eyes but they can go brown even after a few years of age. Which is probably what happened, she was born with blue eyes as a baby.

The best way I learn to tell the difference is go to APHA website and they have pictures and coat patterns.

twogeldings 10-15-2010 05:44 PM

She looks to be Tobiano with Splash. Maaayyybeee with a little Sabino thrown in.

I'm not seeing any Overo in her. I'd classify her (if you wanted to be simple about it) as a more maximumly expressed Tobiano.

ChevyPrincess 10-15-2010 05:46 PM

Do you have the papers? I would think APHA would just review pictures and make corrections, guess they could get careless. Lol

PaintHorseMares 10-15-2010 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronson3000 (Post 783505)
I just bought a 5 year old paint mare a few months ago, she is registered as a tovero but I never believed it because one of the criteria is one or both blue eyes, right?

Although one of two blue eyes is typically listed as a tovero trait, there are many toveros with two brown eyes.

bronson3000 10-15-2010 05:53 PM

Thanks for the quick replies! Yeah, I do have the papers and they left her as a tovero.. I guess I was just confused because every resource I look at lists the presence of a blue eye as a character.. but she has brown eyes with white sclera (kind of nuts looking). But anyway, thanks guys!

PaintHorseMares 10-15-2010 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronson3000 (Post 783525)
I guess I was just confused because every resource I look at lists the presence of a blue eye as a character.. but she has brown eyes with white sclera (kind of nuts looking).

Understandable...we have a 2 brown eyed tovero and a 2 blue eyed tobiano ;-)
In your case, what stood out to me was the amount of head white...I've never seen (though perhaps they exist) a tobiano with non-blaze head white like that.

trailhorserider 10-16-2010 11:44 PM

I would call her a tovero. I actually own one with two brown eyes. I have never heard that they could only have blue, so I don't think that is correct.

While she basically looks like a tobiano, what gives her away as a tovero is the face marking on her left side and the jagged edges to the brown marking on her neck on the left side. Those are overo traits. But I am not a genetics expert either, so I could be wrong. But if I were to make an educated guess, I would say tovero. :-)

Also, I believe it is common for Paint breeders to cross tobianos and overos to maximize their chances for color while minimizing their chances for a lethal white foal. Because I *think* if you breed overo to overo you have something like a 1 in 4 chance of getting a lethal white. But that is just going off the top of my head.

Quixotic 10-17-2010 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trailhorserider (Post 784658)
I *think* if you breed overo to overo you have something like a 1 in 4 chance of getting a lethal white. But that is just going off the top of my head.

That's only if you breed 2 horses who are carrying the Frame overo gene. APHA lumps together Frame, Splash, & Sabino all into the "overo" category.

I agree with twogeldings, she's most likely Tobiano & Splash (technically a "tovero" by APHA standards). Blue eyes are certainly not a requirement, although if a horse does have blue eyes, it is because they are carrying Splash or Frame.

trailhorserider 10-17-2010 12:23 AM

Oh, okay. I know next to nothing about Splash. :oops:

When I say overo I was thinking frame overo. I didn't know APHA lumped splash, frame and sabino all as overo. Interesting!


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