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-   -   Hunter/Jumper prospect critique. *VIDEO* (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/hunter-jumper-prospect-critique-%2Avideo%2A-67809/)

CinnamonBoots 10-21-2010 03:22 AM

Hunter/Jumper prospect critique. *VIDEO*
 
Jazz has been at the new trainer now for about a month and I can see a HUGE improvement. His stubborness is finally starting to subside http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...s/rolleyes.gif. Jazz is a 6 year old OTTB and has been in training for about a month now. I plan to use him in either the Hunters or the Jumpers, I am still waiting on him to decide where to show. Please critique him! This is the first time I have ever seen him do a grid, I know they have been working with him a lot and cannot wait until he is ready to show http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...es/biggrin.gif.

Please do not critique the rider or comment on her not wearing a helmet, I already knowhttp://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...smilies/no.gif. Thanks.

YouTube - Jazz grid <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Dont forget this video!

Thank you.

kmacdougall 10-21-2010 03:29 AM

I fail to see what running him into the fence after he jumps the cross rail contributes to his training.. Other then just annoying him, which it obviously did.

CinnamonBoots 10-21-2010 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmacdougall (Post 789212)
I fail to see what running him into the fence after he jumps the cross rail contributes to his training.. Other then just annoying him, which it obviously did.

It's called gymnastics and is commonly used in training young green horses it serves many purposes when training a green horse such as rounding his neck and back and keeping him balanced.

kmacdougall 10-21-2010 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CinnamonBoots (Post 789216)
It's called gymnastics and is commonly used in training young green horses it serves many purposes when training a green horse such as rounding his neck and back and keeping him balanced.

In my 9 years of riding jumpers I've yet to see a gymnastic that involves running the horse into the arena fence. And funny you should mention rounding his neck and back and balancing him because when she runs him into fence he hollows out and falls off balance, makes a very unbalanced, stiff turn, and then is forced into cantering over the fence again in a mere few strides. Also, in my experience, gymnastics typically involve more then one cross rail. I've often used gymnastics to improve a horses carriage by encouraging them to keep impulsion and pull their knees up to make it through a line of 2-4 jumps or ground poles. So no, what you have here is not a gymnastic, it's a cross rail.

I'm sorry, it's your money and you can choose to train him as you like, but in my experience you probably aren't going to get very far in any competition, recognized or unrecognized with a horse trained in this method.

Why not establish a good working canter on a 30m circle, have him balanced rhythmically and with a good forward impulsion, then keep him straight off the circle at one point, canter him calmly over the jump, regain a good canter on a circle again, and bring him back down to trot.

Watch the video for yourself, driving him into the fence did nothing but make him annoyed.

Knaagdier 10-21-2010 07:28 AM

As for your question - jumping form itself is -very nice-. He seems eager to jump and happy too so and approaches it with gusto but not a blind rush. He seems to take care in lifting his feet. Most importantly, he appears to love it!! I think he will make an exellent jumper.

However, I think you need to discuss his training method with his trainer.

What he is currently being taught is that he has to stop at the fence after the jump. This is - very, very, very bad. Especially since its during his retraining and he's going to start to associate it with jumping. Once he has this down, it will become a problem for you (a horse trained to stop at a fence after a jump will be a disaster at shows) Jump jump happy joy, canter canter - preparing for turn to next jump. WAIT! Fence! Stop! (lol) Also, he will learn to go straight towards a fence after the jump.

Very nice horse. VERY GOOD jumping prospect. Very bad training method that can have terrible results, specifically in regards to the fence-riding in combination with a young OTTB.

Knaagdier 10-21-2010 07:29 AM

P.s I myself ride an OTTB. He was trained to 'stop' at fences. I spent almost 2 months just getting him to well.. stop stopping at fences and realize we can actually go past it *g* Trust me, its really a nuisance!

Also, I don't mean to critique your trainers general handling of the horse, or her riding, simply the way this specifically is handled.

Silverada 10-21-2010 08:54 AM

As far as I know, this technique is used
a. when your horse after jumping is turning left or right and not moving straighn forward and
b. when your horse after jumping starts to speed up, so you make him run down the line till the end of the arena and you don't let him turn to continue running.

ErikaLynn 10-21-2010 09:42 AM

Stopping the horse at the fence makes him stop. Considering he is a Thoroughbred right off the track maybe he takes off after the jump, I know a few OTTB's that do that and stopping them at the fence helps them learn they can't take off after a jump. (It's not like the rider was pulling on him or being really harsh trying to stop him)

He looks like is going to make a good jumper. He seems very willing. He has a pretty form and tucks up his knees nicely. Good luck with him.

kmacdougall 10-21-2010 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErikaLynn (Post 789328)
Stopping the horse at the fence makes him stop. Considering he is a Thoroughbred right off the track maybe he takes off after the jump, I know a few OTTB's that do that and stopping them at the fence helps them learn they can't take off after a jump. (It's not like the rider was pulling on him or being really harsh trying to stop him)

He looks like is going to make a good jumper. He seems very willing. He has a pretty form and tucks up his knees nicely. Good luck with him.

Except you can clearly see him canter away from the fence in a very relaxed manner. The rider also has her leg on. If you're going to drive a horse into a fence to get him to stop from running away, you probably shouldn't keep your leg active against his barrel, encouraging him to lengthen his stride and speed up, then run him headfirst into a fence. And, if you have a horse who is going to bolt after a cross rail, you have a major hole in your training that needs to be fixed before you begin jumping. 9 times out of 10 a horse that will bolt after a fence will bolt when presented with the right variables on flat as well.

If you're not careful, as already mentioned, he will begin stopping immediately after fences.

ErikaLynn 10-21-2010 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmacdougall (Post 789347)
Except you can clearly see him canter away from the fence in a very relaxed manner. The rider also has her leg on. If you're going to drive a horse into a fence to get him to stop from running away, you probably shouldn't keep your leg active against his barrel, encouraging him to lengthen his stride and speed up, then run him headfirst into a fence. And, if you have a horse who is going to bolt after a cross rail, you have a major hole in your training that needs to be fixed before you begin jumping. 9 times out of 10 a horse that will bolt after a fence will bolt when presented with the right variables on flat as well.

If you're not careful, as already mentioned, he will begin stopping immediately after fences.

But he's a thoroughbred right off the track..I know thoroughbreds that don't take off on the flat at all, but as soon as they start jumping then they get excited and take off after the jump. And it's not like the fence is 2 strides after the jump...he has time to canter. She didn't pull on his face to make him stop, and she wasn't angry about it...all she did was stop and turn around.

And 90% of riders keep their leg on a horse...especially while jumping...so why would someone train a horse to get really fast by a little bit of leg pressure? The horse especially an OTTB needs to get used to leg pressure. As most racehorses are used to no legs at all.

Everyone has their own training methods. You think that this person's method is not effective, but I do. To each his own.


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