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reining girl 10-29-2010 08:43 PM

your least favorite bloodlines??
 
I saw this thread on another forum and all the interesting responses. So i wanted to know what are your guy's least favorite bloodlines? Im hoping this wont turn into a hateful, bickering thread :lol: everyone has dislikes and likes, try to not get butt hurt when someone dislikes your favorite bloodline. Im just curious to see what others think. ON this other forum, the most hated line was Two Eyed Jack.

beau159 10-29-2010 11:07 PM

Personally, I hate seeing the Impressive lineage of horses. Not because of temperment or performance or anything like but because of the disease that can be transmitted. Bob Avila just had a very interesting article in Horse & Rider discussing this and I totally agree with him. There are so many other great lines out there, why do you want to promote one that is proven to carry disease?

And just a random comment on the Two Eyed Jack line ... my mom's horse is bred with him on the dam's side and we absolutely love my mom's horse to death. Certainly one of the best horses we have ever had.

Eliz 10-29-2010 11:11 PM

Any over-bred, mediocre lines.

Overrated lines...

They kind of go hand and hand ;)

ColtHearted 10-29-2010 11:44 PM

My colt is out of Two Eyed Jack among others, and he's the quietest, most eager to please weanling I've ever dealt with. I'm actually still trying to come up with a registered name for him, best I've gotten is Two Twisted To Invest. He's got The Investor in him as well, and his dam is RA Licorice Twist, but I'm getting off topic.

Wasn't there a line of QHs that were said to pass on diseases as well? I want to say Peppy San Badger, but I'm not sure. It was a few years ago in a horse magazine.
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reining girl 10-30-2010 12:56 AM

your probably thinking of poco bueno and herda

beau159 10-30-2010 02:29 AM

Poco Bueno and HERDA per http://www.aqha.com.au/registry_serv...eric_HERDA.asp

Hereditary Equine Regional Dermal Asthenia, also known as Hyper Elastosis Cutis or HC

HERDA is a painful but rare skin condition characterised in afflicted horses by skin lesions. It most often occurs along the back, particularly the saddle area and the neck but has also been known to show up on other parts of the body, including the legs.
Basically, a HERDA afflicted horse’s skin has ‘faulty’ or defective fibres which act to prevent the three layers of skin binding together properly. The weakened fibres cannot stand up to any external stress or strain. Consequently, when the skin is damaged, it fails to heal properly leaving it open to infection and can in the most extreme cases ‘de-glove’ the horse - effectively skinning it alive. Unfortunately, because of the nature of HERDA and the weakened state of the fibres, the skin cannot be stitched back together.

In most cases horses don’t show any visual signs of the disease until they are around 2 years of age and have begun their initial training. Occasionally, HERDA does become apparent earlier if an afflicted horse becomes injured in the paddock.

Tragically, there is no cure for HERDA as it is a genetic disorder. Most horses diagnosed as afflicted with the disease are euthanized because they can no longer be ridden due to the injuries they suffer whilst saddled. Anecdotally, most afflicted horses are unlikely to have an extended lifespan.

However, after extensive expert scientific research, what we DO know is that HERDA is a recessive genetic disease so both sire and dam must possess the recessive gene in order for offspring to possibly be afflicted with HERDA.





Impressive-bred horses and HYPP per http://www.bringinglighttohypp.org/.

Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis, commonly known as HYPP, has been widely spread throughout the equine industry over the last several years. This heritable disease is caused by a genetic defect that has been found through research to trace back to the great American Quarter Horse stallion, Impressive.



HYPP affects the sodium channels of afflicted horses and overloads the system with high potassium levels that cause episodes which may include: mild muscle twitching that is undetectable to the human eye; noticeable muscle twitching; "crawling" skin, ranging from slight to very noticeable and usually from the back flank area forward; hind quarter paralysis; excessive yawning; and paralysis of the muscles surrounding the heart and/or lungs, causing death due to heart attack or suffocation.



There are three testing statuses for HYPP:



H/H This status means that a horse carries a double copy of the defective gene and will pass at least one copy of the gene and the disease to 100% of it's offspring.



N/H This status means that the horse carries one normal gene and one HYPP gene and statistically an N/H horse will pass the gene and the disease to 50% of it's offspring when bred to a N/N or non-Impressive bred horse. N/H to N/H cross will statistically result in 25% N/N progeny, 50% N/H progeny, and 25% H/H progeny.



N/N This status means that the horse carries two normal genes. It does not have the disease, nor can it be passed on.



A dominant gene disease requires only ONE PARENT to have and pass on the gene AND the disease. It can be avoided by not breeding diseased animals. HYPP is a dominant gene disease. All N/H and H/H horses are carriers and all have the disease and any of them could have an attack at any moment.



A recessive-gene disease requires both parents to pass a copy of the gene for offspring to inherit the disease. These parents are carriers, but do NOT have the disease themselves. The disease can be easily avoided by testing and not breeding carriers to each other. HERDA and OLWS are recessive gene diseases.

MacabreMikolaj 10-30-2010 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beau159 (Post 799305)
Personally, I hate seeing the Impressive lineage of horses. Not because of temperment or performance or anything like but because of the disease that can be transmitted. Bob Avila just had a very interesting article in Horse & Rider discussing this and I totally agree with him. There are so many other great lines out there, why do you want to promote one that is proven to carry disease?

And just a random comment on the Two Eyed Jack line ... my mom's horse is bred with him on the dam's side and we absolutely love my mom's horse to death. Certainly one of the best horses we have ever had.

That is completely false. Impressive does not equal HYPP. HYPP is a disease that is 100% testable and preventable. There are THOUSANDS of Impressive descendants without HYPP and who will never pass on HYPP. This line is responsible for some of the GREATEST horses in history - there is absolutely nothing wrong with the line itself, the problem lays in irresponsible breeders who are too lazy, ignorant or stupid to bother testing or think it's ok to breed N/H horses. But that is the worst reason I've heard for disliking a bloodline responsible for so many great things, and based on completely false assumptions.

I personally dislike the Padrons Psyche/Magnum Psyche etc. line of horses right now. I think they are promoting something that is completely mutant as to what the Arabian breed represents, when bred in a way that promotes the hooked giraffe neck and flat weak croup of today's desired halter Arabian. As stallions, they ARE capable of producing some half decent performance stock when crossed on performance mares, but they are the biggest contributors to the monstrosity I find Arabian halter showing today.

smrobs 10-30-2010 03:08 AM

I am not a big fan of most the halter bred horses out there simply because there are so many of them that are impractical riding horses. Basically any line with tiny feet, upright pasterns, and straight as an arrow hind legs is a huge turnoff to me. I do like the temperments of most of the Impressive horses I have experience with, and I adore the Two Eyed Jack lines. I have ridden a few and my Dad rode a lot when he was working with Billy Allen in the '70s. Said they were all really nice horses.

beau159 10-30-2010 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj (Post 799453)
That is completely false. Impressive does not equal HYPP. HYPP is a disease that is 100% testable and preventable. There are THOUSANDS of Impressive descendants without HYPP and who will never pass on HYPP. This line is responsible for some of the GREATEST horses in history - there is absolutely nothing wrong with the line itself, the problem lays in irresponsible breeders who are too lazy, ignorant or stupid to bother testing or think it's ok to breed N/H horses. But that is the worst reason I've heard for disliking a bloodline responsible for so many great things, and based on completely false assumptions.

I did NOT say all Impressive-bred horses will all have HYPP. I said they CAN pass on the disease, which is indeed true. And I never discounted the impact Impressive has made on the horse industry. Please do not twist my words.

Yes, HYPP can be tested for genetically. But just think about all those lazy, ignorant, and stupid breeders who do not test, as you pointed out.

And I am not going to debate on this anymore because this topic was OPINION. And I am entitled to it. That's fine if you don't agree with me, but don't claim I have made false statements when I clearly have not.

Here is the excerpt and direct quote from Bob Avila and Sue M. Copeland from the Oct 2010 issue of Horse and Rider article titled "Greed: Learn the five ways the almight dollar can be hazardous to horses (and people)":

...

Greed rears its ugly head in the breeding shed in several obvious ways. One is the continued breeding of trendy bloodlines with known health issues. Certainly HYPP in the halter industry is one glaring example. Breeders (and buyers) are willing to risk a serious health condition to gain the muscle bulk that wins in the show pen.

Other, less-glaring examples exist. For instance, some top performance blood lines are know to pass along OCD, navicular, and other career-limiting conditions. Yet, because such bloodlines sell, breeders keep cranking out those foals, many of which fall apart during the physical stress of training. But breeders keep breeding them, because buyers keep buying them. If the market for such bloodlines dried up, the breeders who produce them would, too. Or, they'd have to change.

...

MacabreMikolaj 10-30-2010 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beau159 (Post 799305)
Personally, I hate seeing the Impressive lineage of horses. Not because of temperment or performance or anything like but because of the disease that can be transmitted.

You did not say you dislike the HYPP lines. You said you dislike the Impressive line period because of HYPP. Opinions are fine, but continuing the line of completely false information to spook people into thinking all Impressive horses are bad is going beyond an opinion. That's fine if you don't want to debate, but I did not twist your words whatsoever - you quite blatantly said you dislike Impressive because the line itself can pass on the disease. That says to me and moany people reading that ANY Impressive bred horse can pass on HYPP which is completely untrue. The disease itself may have originated with Impressive, but there are more then enough good lines from him that are disease free that it's quite ignorant to perpetuate the myth that all Impressive horses are diseased and should never be bred thanks to a few idiotic breeders.

I would like to see that entire article if you're going to quote it, because the paragraph you posted said NOTHING about Impressive and only made mention of unscrupulous breeders who will do anything to make money. Continuing to breed disease free N/N Impressive horses has absolutely zero to do with that.


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