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Spyder 11-16-2010 10:54 PM

Lightness and power.
 
There is a huge debate on the HGS forum about a video and riding technics where one poster refers to Legerete

What is it?

First a picture of the thoughts behind Legerete and here is a diagram to give you some insight.


http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...t/Legerete.jpg

Because someone already wrote up the contrasting systems ( French-Legerete (lightness) to the more common German-(power) I am going to just copy and paste for your perusal.

Quote:

Just very briefly the German system uses the scales

Rhythm-Actively driving the horse forward to engage the hindquarters with the regularity and rhythm of the movement being the main desire. Within this is the desire to have the horse stretch over the back and chew the bit.

Contact-Here the attempt is to have an elastic contact with the horse from the hand to the mouth driven by the engagement of the hindquarters.

Impulsion-Here the engagement of the hindquarters is such that it drives the whole horse forward. This results in the hindquarters accepting more weight and over time the suspension phase of the trot and canter should improve.

Straightness-Here attempts to correct the natural crookedness of the horse so the each hind leg is driven forward equally and each hind leg provides equal thrust to drive the horse forward.

Collection-Following the above scales the horse should become better balanced and be able to accept a greater weight on the hind legs. This acceptance will allow the hind legs to be driven more under the horse and the resultant lifting of the poll puts the horse in a state of collection.

All of the above are very acceptable goals to work for but there are others "scales" used by other schools that are just as effective.

French /Legerete

In this system the relaxation of the horse is the first and most important thing. There is relaxation to the hand, relaxation to the seat (balance) and relaxation to the leg (impulsion). All are interrelated but without relaxation to the hand (jaw relaxation) you are driving the horse into a tense and resistant front end.

I have posted this before that if you looked at the horse as a piece of dried out leather that you want it to be a soft usable cloth you must slowly bend/flex it back and forth and once it has been made soft then that piece of leather will be available for multiple uses. A horse that has the capabilities to bend left and right will become straight and supple. And that suppleness develops rhythm.

This becomes a more mobile horse that has lost its "stuckness" and will have a greater desire to want to move forward (impulsion). In time the poll will rise with the ability given to the horse to relax throughout the body and collection is now a matter of continued word through lateral work. At the early stages this horse will tend to have a more open throat latch type of frame.

The more open frame allows the rider to easier maneuver the horse into bigger gaits with collection coming at the end.

The interesting note is that two horses trained in each of the above ways seem to be virtually identical by the time they reach level 3.

~*~anebel~*~ 11-17-2010 12:05 AM

Like anything in dressage, every training method and every training day must be tailored to the horse individually. It is virtually impossible to employ an "entirely French" or "entirely German" system of training as each has elements which are very inter-related.
The thing that I think a lot of people get carried away with on the German scale is the rhythm. It does not mean we drive the horse forward to the point of rushing, but that he is balanced in a good, even tempo.
I am more of a fan of the German system because it is more of a teaching system and is easier to comprehend.

Beling 11-18-2010 03:16 PM

How interesting!

What I've always objected to about the German (and USDF) method is the pyramid itself, because it seemed one wasn't "allowed" to advance until such-and-such was perfect-- like rhythm. The well-bred Dressage Horse does not find that so difficult. But some horses do, and simply working on rhythm is dull. . . The "circle" approach seems to allow that rhythm will improve when relaxation improves, when balance improves, etc. More of a mish-mash, but I guess I think along those lines.

Spyder 11-18-2010 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beling (Post 820739)
How interesting!

What I've always objected to about the German (and USDF) method is the pyramid itself, because it seemed one wasn't "allowed" to advance until such-and-such was perfect-- like rhythm. The well-bred Dressage Horse does not find that so difficult. But some horses do, and simply working on rhythm is dull. . . The "circle" approach seems to allow that rhythm will improve when relaxation improves, when balance improves, etc. More of a mish-mash, but I guess I think along those lines.


Just as there are many roads to Rome there are different methods that will work in dressage and because not all horses are built alike or even react the same a well rounded dressage enthusiast will learn the variations available.

I take some ideas from the French and some from the German and will apply variations of both depending on the circumstances.

spirithorse8 11-23-2010 11:07 PM

The pyramid is not built correctly and that is the problem with dressage schooling. The foundation is wrong.

MIEventer 11-23-2010 11:13 PM

^^ Maybe you should let all the Dressage Masters know that their system is flawed.

~~~~

Great thread Spyder! Great posts Spyder and Anabel!

spirithorse8 11-23-2010 11:16 PM

Egads, the Masters are God Almighty

Knowledge is not stagnant, however, in dressage knowledge is from the OLD OLD Olden times................

spirithorse8 11-23-2010 11:23 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This is the pyramid and it is not in the correct order.

MIEventer 11-24-2010 12:10 AM

Please Spirit - present us with what you do. I would love to see video's of you riding and doing Dressage how you think it should be done. What are your accomplishments in the Dressage world, to be such an authority on the subject?

Spyder 11-24-2010 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirithorse8 (Post 826817)
This is the pyramid and it is not in the correct order.


Then why don't you write a book and tell everyone out there what they should be doing.

Arguing in a closed audience like a small forum won't get you far.


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