What is horse rescue/ when to breed.
So there have been a lot of disagreements about this lately. So I would like to ask your opinions while keeping it civil to others - lets talk about it here, and get it all out.
Maybe I am stupid, but I would hope that we can talk about something and come to our conclusions. I say this because someone posted their views about back yard breeders, who I was against, and I completely changed my mind based on their post, I will ask them to repost it here if they are comfortable doing that.
Rules, keep it a conversation, that means civil and lets just discuss our opinions as adults. Agreed? ok then lets go.....
Rescue is overused IMO.
A rescue isnt every single horse that is living in conditions that a person might not like. "Oh they dont have a blanket, and he wasnt getting grain so I rescued him!" "That poor horse only had a mud pit to stand in!" (while it is pouring down rain). Nuh uh. No way. No how.
IMO...a rescue is a horse that comes from a place where its welfare is without a doubt not being considered. No vet care, no farrier seeing them, most likely in bad health, on the brink of starvation.
You do not pay for a rescue....except for maybe paying a small adoption fee in the odd case.
I love horses, but I find it almost hypocritical how people say "breeding more will be slaughtered etc" when they wouldn't say that about a cow, or a sheep, or a pig. Horses are not alone in their treatment before slaughter/shipping etc, yet we give them special consideration because of our emotional attachments.
It might be different here, or I might be oblivious, but I don't see the "good" horses going to slaughter here. Its the Thoroughbreds, Standardbreds, crazies, lame etc. It probably happens, but I don't hear about someone rescuing a horse that was bred by an owner who loved their mare and wanted a foal. In my experience those people but the time into their horse and sure, their horse isn't "top quality" but most people don't want a wonderful horse, they just want one with good manners, decent training and a good temperament.
I don't think people should breed willy-nilly. They should choose the best possible stallion for their mare - not just the local one, and ensure they have the time, money and experience to correctly raise a foal. But if that is what they want to do - that is their choice. I think the "too many horses" problem isn't so much because of the occasional breeder, but the racing industry. I also think stallion owners must be much more selective - either by allowing their horse to stand at stud, or approving the mares. Horses with higher quality sires are probably more likely to find good homes.
I noticed in the other thread people were using definitions to explain the meaning of rescue, but as most people who are familiar with the english language know, word meanings are not soley determined by their definitions, but also in the context in which the are used. So perhaps the best way to get your point across is not to start consulting the dictionary.
So my overall opinion is basically make the best decisions that you can, while still addressing the needs of yourself, the individual horse, and horse-society as a whole.
I want to add that my Grandparents and I had an oops! foal once. We have a standardbred farm....and at the time I had an older Morgan mare. She ran with the broodmares in the back pasture, except for when I was at the farm and she was kept up at the barn. Grandpa then came across a well-bred stallion (his best mile was 1:53 and change, with over $100,000 won) for $800. Yes, $800 to buy him. Why you ask? Because he had a stone chip in his ankle and his owners didnt want to operate on him. Herc's ankle was the size of a softball, but he got hopped along wonderfully and was not in pain. Grandpa was hoping Herc would throw some foals with some speed. We have always been responsible breeders...considering stallions to match with mares who will throw good babies. Crap babies do not earn money. Racing is how my Grandparents have earned their living for decades, so they are not interested in having a crappy foal at all.
Herc was turned out with the broodmares and Amber, my Morgan mare. Grandpa didnt think that a 22/23 year old mare would be cycling, but lo and behold, she did and ended up pregnant.
This foal was not wanted, but it was still well cared for. Captain Morgan ended up being sold to a lady who wanted a pleasure horse. To the best of my knowledge, she still owns him. Captain Morgan would be at least 8 now.
Just because you end up with an oops! foal, or a foal that was bred to a hobby breeder does not mean that they will end up in a kill pen or at an auction. That horse can still turn out to be a contributing member of horse society.
Rescue is not buying a horse at auction. Rescue is not buying a scruffy horse off craigslist. Rescue is not buying a horse that you simply do not agree with the previous owners manner of caring for them. Heck, rescue is not even buying a horse from the meat man.
I am fine with the term upgrading in those situations. But it is not rescue.
AB, I have to somewhat disagree... Rescue IS buying from meat truck (or auction, or craigslist). PLUS good care and training (if not just a pasture pet).
I don't mind responsible breeding - whether it's "home" breeding or facility breeding. I'm fine with even breeding grade (or the one, which didn't proof itself in ring) mare with great confo (I remember someone's horse on this forum, the mix, which was end result of careful confo consideration and looked great with confo just right for jumping or eventing).
Unfortunately on 1 good breeder there are 10 byb, who breed only to "make money" (meaning no consideration put in lines, confo, care, training, or even the future possible price of baby), because of the cute color, you name it. We have babies like that all the time at the auction and for sale on local forums.
I found the ad on CL. I plan to provide the horse with additional training and I personally did not like the condition of the stalls the horse was kept in and I will certainly give it good care.
Additional training because the horse is young, but is well trained for its age. Horse is fat and happy but its stall was messy and I am anal about my stalls. But it must be a rescue because I am obviously a better home.
Kitten, and I have to disagree with you. But I'll try to do it politely. :-P :wink:
In my mind, rescuing something does not involve money. If you purchase an animal off the meat truck, from the kill buyer, or even out of the feedlot, you've done nothing but buy it. In other words, you've made a financial transaction in order to obtain that animal. That's not rescue, it's commerce.
True, you've stopped the animal from being slaughtered, but I don't consider slaughter to be an evil, vicious fate from which horses need to be 'rescued'. This is apparently where antislaughter advocates and those who don't see slaughter as an inherent evil, differ.
If you pay someone to buy their animal, regardless of the animal's living conditions or its ultimate fate should you not buy it, it's commerce, not rescue. This is why I have such a hard time with legitimate rescues BUYING horses. There are enough animals who really do need rescuing, without rewarding someone monetarily.
If you buy it, I'll concede that you may very well be upgrading the animal's living conditions. Proper feeding and foot/medical/dental care are definite upgrades if the animal wasn't getting them, but that still doesn't make it a rescue.
Alex- I think this is a great idea. I hope that everyone can stay civil on the subject. Maura brought up some really great points in her post. Ill have to see if I can copy/paste it here.
Before I get started on my mini-rant, please know that I love all horses. Even the fugly ones. I would keep them all if I could. That being said...
Why are we all so offended at the thought of slaughter? While I wouldn't want my heart horse or any horse that I cared for going to slaughter, I have taken steps to insure that doesn't happen.
People who are anti-breeding, anti-slaughter don't make much sense to me. My point has always been...if you had a choice between letting a horse starve in a field by itself or ending its life quickly...wouldn't you rather let its life end? I know I would.
I am pro-slaughter. The meat buyers aren't coming to your barn to look at your horses. They aren't prowling around paying good money for good horses only to slaughter them. They are at auctions.
When looking at the list of horses from local auctions 'meat' auctions, I was honestly suprised. In certain cases...over 75% of those horses were registered and carried papers. Not just your racing stock...but Registered morgans, paints, QH, arabs etc. While BYB's and Hobby breeders do contribute to the horses in slaughter...so do Big Name Breeders. There are no guarantees in breeding. You could have the top stallion and the top mare breed and have a FUGLY baby. You could also have a low end mare and a low end stallion create the greatest performance horse ever.
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