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HorsesAreForever 04-06-2008 05:52 PM

Chance AGAIN!! worst then ever!!!! VERY LONG!
OKay Please read all of this suprise at the end :D... well saturday I didnt ride I just loved her like crazy and groomed her a lot and just spent time with her, Sunday it was work day...we did a ton of ground work which she did perfect completly responsive to everything i asked just amazing, we did some parelli games.. the friendly game with a lunge whip and my god was she afraid of that if i even poked her with it she went into a full out gallop on the lunge line after about 20 mins shes like ok w.e and i could rub her were ever except her ankles. then we went into the porcipine game she did fairly well and would move her hind around just by me kinda moving mu finger around there was i decided to do some lungeing with her well she wouldnt go into a trot so i had to get after her a bit then she was start pulling and we were a mess lol then she decided she didnt want to go around me she want to follow me and turn her hind away from me!! she knows how to lunge well after about 23 mins of lungeing i decided to tack her up and take her for a ride in the arena cause the snow is gone yay!! and i lunged her a little up there so she could get use to the footing and i petted her a ton after that so then i see my trainer coming up cause she knows how she is just to make sure i ddont get killed lmao so i get up on her and we are doing perfect!!! i couldnt belive it i mean walk and trot pretty collected we did this for 15 mins stright yay no stupidness! .... whoops spoke to early... she starting throwing her head and i was like oo @&#! i wasny scared or nervous tho well she reared pretty high suprised she didnt flip over the second her hooves it the ground she decided to buck and i almost when over but i stayed seated and i let that sorta slip my trainer yelled at her but nothing else so we started to walk and i had my heels down was sitting pretty deep and wasnt giving any signals to go faster but she decided to gallop and stupidly i didnt have my reins completely collected so it was pretty hard to get her to stop but i did her and i gave her a good thump with my foot and she started trotting nicely then here we go rear after rear after rear nothing stoped her if i tried to turn her into a circle the rears would get worse then she do the rear buck thing and it was getting out of hand i even did things i feel sooo bad about. and i have worked on ground work for the past few days so its not that she needs ground work she just has not respect for u in the saddle. well my trainer was getting pretty nervous cause this horse was just fliping out and it wasnt pain cause we have had her checked out. so my trainer told me to hop off so i did and omg i was accually quite calm cause that was sorta fun but scary it went from gallop to rear rear buck rear gallop. I mean i tried everything half halts everyything and turning her in circles which made things 100% worse! So i let my trainer take over and i told her please dont beat her and shes like ok ill be calm.. and im like ok so she lunged her for me and my horse decded to turn towards my trainer and galloped right for her omgggg ive never seen her do that!! my trainers like im sorry but that is completely unnessacary and if u tried to back her up she would rear then try and run u over! she knows shes stronger and my trainer lunged her at a gallop and would not let her stop and if she reared she got yanked on and had to keep going this horse she did get hit with the whip a few times and i just almost cried i hate when people use the whip but this horse jsut wouldnt do anything we asked she acted wild! she wasnt scared i can tell u that u could tell by her face she just didnt want anything to do with us. well after about 30 mins shes like ok get back on her and im like o god ok... so i got up and i rode her on the line and she reared quite a few times but once we got after her she did amazingly well no rears no bucks but she did refuse to move a few times but i asked her nicely and shes like hmm fine.. but turning she would throw a rear in but not very high. so that was ok and we walked trotted and canter no problem on the lunge :) i was happy :) then my trainers like ok time to ride her down the hill and im like ya u get to walk right beside me.. cause i didnt want to be taken off into the woods. after when we got to the barn i was just about to get off and i had my legs amost of of the stirups she decides to rear at least 7 times!!!! reminder u could tell she was not scared i can tell when shes scared and thats when she hears a tractor and u can tell by her face and body when shes scared she wasnt scared at all during this. but after the 2nd rear i swung my leg over and had fun sitting the rears lol and i hoped off after her fit and brought her in the barn untacked her and brushed her up and she wasnt afraid or anything of me she acted as if nothing ever happened and i pet her and loved her a bit and when i lead her out she did good stayed right next to me and i put her in a stall and she rears and smacked her head off the ceiling about 4 times >.< weirdo... she never learns.. next weekend were gonna put a martingale or w.e it is on her and see if that helps. If u have a reply please dont be mean about it dont ask me to get a diff horse and dont say i was being real mean to her there was things i wish i didnt do but she was way out of control even for my trainer and shes trained and broke many horses. GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!! THE BABY WAS BORN!!!!!!! ILL HAVE PICTURES UP IN A DIFF POST!! :D dont comment on the baby on this post tho :P

Vidaloco 04-06-2008 06:43 PM

Wow what a weekend! I won't make much of a comment except to say join the club :lol: Vida and I had a full weekend riding every day Fri., Sat. and today. I haven't ridden her in about 3 weeks and even then it was just short rides. I don't know if it was the green grass or the wind but she was a goof ball for the first 2 days. I started her in a snaffle on friday she was pretty much a snot, wouldn't slow down, kept wanting to run for the green wheat fields practicly pulling my arms out of their socket to keep her from running off doing one rein stops. Zig zagging all the way home to keep her in check. Sat. My husband said enough of that crap stick my myler curb bit in her mouth! She did a bit better no more running off but wouldn't stay in gait got trotty and bucky by the end of the ride. She never actually bucked but I could feel her wanting too. Today she was a dream, back to my old girl. Guess it took a few days to get her back in stride. I knew I was going to have a rough time with her after she had the winter off and me having low confidence. I'm sure after a few more weekends your Chance will get better and better. Don't lose hope and keep working with her. Also bravo for not letting her get to you and staying calm.

HorsesAreForever 04-06-2008 06:56 PM

lol well im glad im not the only one havin this problem adn it really sucks cause a show is coming up and i wont be able to compete with her but ya i troed my bes tto keep calm threw all of this even tho i just felt like giving up and tell u the truth i was so upset i really almost cried >>.<< embarresing :P I stayed with her tho and suprisingly very calm and was ready to get back on... lol but ya I really hope after a few weeks of this She will be the normal chance i kno. And i found out the NH may not be for her >.< she just takes right over. I too almost got my arms pulled out gosh never I started to think we were gonna over go over the fence at a gallop. We are thinking about seriously changein her bit till she calms down but im glad that u and vida got back on track :)

Abby 04-06-2008 10:49 PM

I took my horse out for his first trail rides. He did good the first time but the second ride he took off with me in the apple orchard and just about lobbed my head on a branch, I ended up laying on him to keep from being scraped off, he didn't take of too bad but he started to canter down the hill and since he can't use his hind quarters ended up going a little faster than a canter and was about galloping until we hit the next hill and I was able to stop him because I couldn't one rein stop him because of the tree's while going down hill, and not only that but he probably would have tipped over because we were going downhill and faster than a canter. and it was as if I didn't even have any reins was how bad he was ignoring me, finally after he did about a dozen circles and spooked a few times he was a dream. Today he rode very well even though I only rode him from the arena to the pasture, its only about a five minute ride but it was still a ride hehe. He was very excited to be out to be honest he was very get-up-and-go which is understandable being it his first few rides outside the boring old arena/round pen. Hopefully tomorrow will be better eh? :wink: I felt him fighting me a lot, He wasn't flexing at all and weaved non-stop because Dixie and my mom were way behind us. I think all the horses have spring fever because my moms dead broke unflappable mare got excited too and actually ran my mom into a tree branch, it broke off but knocked my mom off in the process. Helmets are great when dodging tree branches.

It may not be that Natural Horsemanship doesn't work for her, it just might be that you need to be a more assertive leader. I'm not saying whip her, I just mean show her you mean buisiness, go up your phases quickly or however you do it, just be a bit more aggressive if she is being dominant.

HorsesAreForever 04-06-2008 11:07 PM

o wow quite a story lol well ya hopefully everything works out and ya I am pretty positive its domiant thing and i mean we did everything possible and she ignore it like even when it must have friggen hurt she still acted up and i accualy let my trainer at her >.< thats not something i do usually i flip but i mean even my trainer was having a few issues but I think im gonna try and stay off of her next weekend and do more parelli games it jsut that the second she reliaze wait that things just a stick its not gonna hurt she wouldnt lunge she would do anything then she started the running over me thing and idk it was just way out of my control and the stupid round pens were rented out for the day do i couldnt get acess to them which i think would have made everything easier i feel soo bad about everything we did to her :( but i think at the end of it she really had it comeing. I just dont want her to think that if im coming into the stall were gonna beat her to death .. i want to have some kinda of relationship with her but with my trainer its a little hard. i didnt get any videos stupid batteries!!! lol i only got 2 pictures of the baby which i will post tomorrow but ya im hopeing once everything dries up and she stops being stupid bbecause it just get her hurt and my mom gives my trainer permission to do this and i cant do anything about it so she need to smarten up and do it quick. During the summer im going to deff be working on a bond between us because right now i know she doesnt trust me very much she has just enough there for her to sqweeze between to gates that are just barley enought for her to fit while following me and not spooking

Abby 04-06-2008 11:13 PM

IT seems like you are being too friendly with the carrot stick. It is called a carrot stick because it is both a carrot, and a stick at the same time. You can use the string as a lash while lunging, you don't have to hit her with it just slap the ground, closer and closer to her until you tag her tail.

Haha I wish I could crawl through the screen and show you what I mean.

JustDressageIt 04-06-2008 11:25 PM

Hoookay... I'm going to do a list, otherwise I'll get lost.

1) HAF, could you please use punctuation and separate your thoughts into paragraphs? It will make your long posts 100% easier to read. I am interested in your posts, and want to help, but my eyes went crosseyed with this one!!

2) Alright, with the taking off thing: work on your one-rein stops. At a walk, ask her to circle smaller and smaller until she halts, then release the rein and praise her. Once she is stopping easily at the walk (with one rein) then move on to a trot, and circle her until she walks, then circle her to a halt... you get the idea.. do this until she is stopping really easily and well from a trot, then you can move up to the canter.
That way, if she ever takes off on you, you can do a one-rein stop. You can stop almost ANY horse using this method. Remember, a horse's neck will always be stronger than your arm, so just pulling back with your hands won't stop a runaway. If she gets really out of hand, then drop one rein and pull as hard as you can backwards towards your hip, so her nose follows that pressure and she'll follow that into a spin, which will stop her forward motion - you have to be ready for this though, or you might get tossed in the sand.

3) I'm sorry, but playing a few Parelli games does not necessarily constitute good groundwork. If you're playing them consistently to build up a good base, then yes, but just going out one day and deciding to play a few of those games does not - it takes weeks to build up a good groundwork base, a weekend won't do it.
Personally, I like to get a horse going well on the lunge, then I ground-drive them at a walk and trot, and do a ton of circles so they know what the reins mean. I toss in a few verbal commands ("walk on" "trot" and "whoa" are extremely important).
Choose a method, then employ it for the next 2 months - every time you go out to do work with Chance, do groundwork. Forget riding for a little while, obviously she doesn't have the right kind of respect or training to do that right now. Take it back to square one.

4) Rearing: if you're circling them (as in turn on the forehand kind of tight, not 20-m circle kind of tight), they CAN NOT REAR. Turn her in a tight tight tight circle and make her whip her little but around so fast she doesn't know what's happening - they don't like the extra work, so they will think twice about rearing as they won't want to do the extra work associated with this. Turning her in this tight forehand circle will make her unable to buck as well.

5) With young horses you have to be patient, and always be ready - that means being viligant at every moment that you are on them. You can't think "ok well they're going well, I'll just relax" because they might spook at that next scary shadow (yea, the one they've walked by a million times, but THIS time it's scary!) and you might get dumped in the dirt if you're not anticipating it. The fact that Chance got the better of you the second time around was your fault - "fool me once" type thing. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's a reality in training young horses... and I will be the first to admit I've done this many times!!

6) "i even did things i feel sooo bad about." - like what? Again, back to the green horse issue... you have to be able to deal with things calmly and efficiently. If they do something wrong, you deal with it then move on. You can't linger on things - they don't understand. For example, if your horse cow-kicks out, you have to deal with it (kick them forward, for example, or turn a tight circle, just something to punish the action with more work than the action was really worth) and then move on as if nothing happened. You can't stall for a moment then beat them - they don't understand, because the moment has passed, and they will think that what they did after the kick is what you're punishing them for. Another example, if you get bucked off and you go and get your horse, DO NOT hit them, even if you really want to - they will think you're hitting them for letting you catch them.

7) If you're lunging a horse, they should not be able to turn in and charge you, especially if you're completely in control. If nothing else, step to the side and make them work hard around the circle - it's rediculous that a horse would be able to charge you when you're controlling them on the lunge.

Okay, I can't think straight anymore, here's my conclusion:

Honestly, Chance needs to be taken back to square one - groundwork. The stuff that makes her accept the bit and moving awa from your verbal commands, and do basic movements while ground-driving. When it comes to being ridden, Chance needs a very strong trainer who won't let her get away with anything and knows how to deal with situations (rearing, bucking, spooking, whatever) cleanly and then can move on.
It sounds like you really need to consider whether or not you can be all of this to her, HAF. I'm not trying to sound mean, I'm being realistic. I know you like Chance, but can you handle her? Can you take her training back to where you consider her unbroke and build up a solid base? Can you react calmly with her? Can you know what to do when she rears or bucks or spooks? This means that you have to know how to stop her from rearing or bucking.
Most of all, HAF, I think if you are going to continue onwards with Chance, you need to get a trainer. If you don't like the one you're with, then find another.

Okay, my head is spinning, that's a long post to try and digest and reply to!

HorsesAreForever 04-07-2008 07:03 AM

Lol im sorry I now i need to do the whole puncuation thing. But ya ok when she even bends her head just a bit she decides to not move her head any more and if u try and move her the other way she reacts even more! and starts rearing higher and higher. One rein stops mean nothing to her ive tried and we have worked on it repeatedly.

Parelli games arent the only ground work we did. We did lungeing for a while which intill i started the friendly game, she did good we worked on voice commands and walk then halt then trot down to a walk then stop back, canter, walk the up to a trot. she did amazingly well, just a few pulls which was handled. so then i started the friendly game with the lunge whip once she relized o that thing isnt going to hurtt me i can ignore it. then we tried the yoyo she was completely confused :P then we did the porcupine which she did good. Then we did a little but more lunging down there and she would not go in a circle she kept turning to me and walking at me and i wasnt using it to friendly i mean i was practiclly chasing her with it and eventually i would tap her with it even on the butt and that didnt work she just ignored it.

Like i said before we need to work on her bending cause she hates moveing into a diff direction..

And I was ready for something to happen if it did but when i was on her i was trying to stay completely relaxed but ready.

I really dont know how she turned and charged cause my trainer was waveing the whip at her and she completely ignored it then she did step aside and tried again and she did the same thing so we had to accually use the whip and she got out of our way for a good while but i felt bad :(

My trainer is extremely strong and can handle any horse i mean chance was just a little hard for her to handle but she did it. And i know i handled her rearing and bucking pretty well while on her she got my point that it was unacceptable she she listened but then shes like oo lets be stupid again and went frantic and since im only 14 and weight just about 97lb [not too skinny] its not easy to really stay on a bucking horse but i managed and i got after her right after. And i love my trainer shes like family but even if i wanted to i couldnt find a good stable i like for our price range.

Idk what else i could do for Ground Work ..
Im thinking about jsut staying off her and builld a trust with her and work on ground work and maybe try parelli games some more.

LuLu 04-07-2008 11:16 AM


Originally Posted by HorsesAreForever
I really dont know how she turned and charged cause my trainer was waveing the whip at her

That's probably why she charged! When you are lungeing a horse you never wave the whip at them, that's probably why Chance got so frustrated and reacted in the only way she knew how. "things I feel bad about" - what do you mean? Did you use physical punishment? If so, I think this is a classic example of a horse reacting aggressively to being hit. Hitting a green, sensitive mare like this will not work. You need to gain her respect, I know it's easier said than done, I have a sensitive mare and, although she is nowhere near as difficult (not meaning that nastily) as yours, you still have to respect her. If you tried to force her into submission, she would very likely turn on you, because she is so sensitive you cannot bawl and shout and smack her, and I think yours is like this too.

JDI has written so excellant advice there, I totally agree with her!

I'm really not being nasty or mean about this, it's just that people don't want to you to get hurt, good luck, I hope you sort this out x x

Oh, one more thing, when you are handling or riding your mare, if your not already, please wear a helmet! It could save your life!

HorsesAreForever 04-07-2008 11:21 AM

I wear a helmet at all times! and she was waving the whip to get her to back off not to get her going. but ya I know im gonna be staying off her for quite a while and just work on ground work im gonna put a post up asking waht kinda ground work everyone does cause i need more ideas. Im gonna work on trust i know i need to and i want a good relationship but im small shes big and strong and she knows it but im gonna do a ton of work with her i wanted to get pictures and video but i brought bad batteries lol! stupid me! and I myself did not punish her physicly it was my trainer :( which i have no control over really im a child and my mom wants her to take over if things get out of control like that :( but like i said im gonna have just me and her time in round pen so we can learn to trust cause i know i need to learn to trust her cause lately shes been making me nervous and obviously she needs to learn to trust me.

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