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-   -   Helpp me with join up please!!!! (http://www.horseforum.com/natural-horsemanship/helpp-me-join-up-please-76573/)

DixieLu 01-23-2011 02:20 AM

Helpp me with join up please!!!!
 
my horse is 5 and were working on join up and were having problems. i dont know what to do exept the basics. i need help or i kill my horse! im just kidding i love her to peices. :D

tinyliny 01-23-2011 02:35 AM

Dixie,

I think you'll have to explain more of what is actually going on. Are you expecting some sort of miracle to happen and it isnt? I think many people think that their horse will be dramatically changed after doin join up in the round pen, but it might not be so dramatic. If you had a chance to do a video of your work with him, that would be nice. Or explain what isn't going right.

blacksplash 01-23-2011 04:33 PM

yes, it would be helpful if people knew exactly what is going wrong...
join up is very simple to acheive if done right. i would suggest watching a few video tutorials, theres hundreds of them out there.

fess1960 02-10-2011 11:44 AM

Help me with join up please
 
Let us know what kind of trouble you are having, it can be easy wiht some hoses but hard with others...

christopher 02-11-2011 06:52 AM

i assume your doing the normal version of join up. heres my less invasive more persuasive version:

walk out into your pasture, approach your horse (in a straight line! no being sneaky here) when your horse lifts it's head from the grass and looks at you or gives any signs it's focusing it's entire attention on you, stop, stand still, forget about the horse but keep it in your peripherals.

"so what, when i go to catch my horse i'll just do this stop/start motion depending on where my horse is looking?"
yes.

the more you do this, the better. in fact, do this for a month. provided you've done it right, a month will be more than sufficient. (the better you get at timing the release/stop the less time it'll take)

after this month, walk towards your horse, he'll look at you from quite a distance if you've done it right in the past month, but dont stop. keep the same focus on your horse, walking straight towards him, but walking slowlier than usual.

eventually when your horse takes the movement of looking at you to the point where he actually moves towards you, then is the time to turn around and walk away, UNTILL your horse deviates from walking towards you or puts his head down to eat grass, then you go through the whole process again.

this works on 100% of horses.

the theory behind it is one that most training uses, negative reinforcment, but this acknowledges the human as a negative. because in the eyes of a sensitive prey animal (horse) the predator (human) is a negative.

as a negative they'll be constantly seeking ways of avoiding us, this teaches them that the best way to get out of being with a human (predator) is to walk towards the human, very reverse psychological.

a bit farfetched yes, but i've made lots of money doing this with horses that were hard, if not impossible, to catch.

the advantages are that it develops a mental understanding between you and your horse, and the horse no longer fears you as a predator but accepts you as a member of it's herd and it's leader.

i've experimentally done this on cattle, kangaroos and zebras, and 100% of the time within a few short weeks these wild animals were all over me & following me around entirely tack-less.

it's very much similar i believe to join up (having never tried join up i wouldn't accurately know), but as i said it's less invasive and more persuasive, doesn't require a round or small yard (i've done this entirely in the wilderness, where the animals could easily escape beyond my reach if they wish) and depending on just how sensitive your horse is, less traumatic. and was made by me :D

fess1960 02-11-2011 07:26 AM

help me with join up please
 
Actually I have done the same thing as Christopher describes, and yes it works...I have also "roundpenned" a mare in a 1 acre irregular shaped pasture with one electric wire. It just takes more time and patience. It is the same principle of pressure and release. Remove the negative as he says when you get the response you want in this case "two eyes" in other words horses are bilateral, but if they give you their full attention with both eyes you withdraw and walk away, there by rewarding them.
you are a smart man christopher and i know what you are talking about i have done that myself with my horses and it usually works inside of a week with a horses...if you learned "roundpenning" you would be a master.

christopher 02-11-2011 06:24 PM

also, if your unlucky enough to have your horse display that he wants to leave your presence (lean/look away, even run away) then continue walking towards him in the same way, just a bit faster and possibly swinging a small rope or something like that around around. untill he slows, turns around, goes back to eating grass or looks at you, then go through the same process in my original post again.

no need to unnecesarrily scare your horse using the predatorial body language suggested by join up when there is a far nicer method that takes a bit more time to achieve the same (if not better) result.

i actually learnt this when my father taught me how to catch and kill wild animals, a process called stalking, you approach the animal and when it looks at you, you freeze. the problem i found with that is the animals soon learned that if they just looked at you indefinately you'd never get closer then they wanted. so i decided to put some thought to it and decided it really is just negative reinforcment and started doing it with my horses who now, as soon as my presence is known to them, come gleefully bounding up towards me.

thanks fess, can you describe roundpenning to me?

fess1960 02-11-2011 09:01 PM

help me with join up please
 
There are many different clinicians who use the round pen to teach a horse to get with you. Basically you are doing a similar process as yours by sending the horse away and the creating a draw by backing off when they look at you with both eyes...Dennsi Reis uses a rope to teach the recalcitrant ones to turn and face him, then gradually lets the rope go slack and uses body language alone..John Lyons uses a send away then a cut off, turn against the wall, then cut off and turn away form the wall technique then eventually the horse will cut across the corral to the middle to where you are. Either way you are teaching the horse to rest with you not where he wants to.
The advantage to the Reis technique is you get the hindquarter disengagement that you will use in everything you go to do with the horse under saddle. It is also good for people with little patience of the other method. Obviously you have a lot of patience. I would like to see you work a horse, you have a real understanding....and patience.
If you get RFD tv you can see Dennis reis, every week.

Eliz 02-11-2011 09:06 PM

What is the point of joining up?

I'm not trolling, I really am curious :)

fess1960 02-11-2011 09:51 PM

help me wiht join up please
 
This is agravating having to add to the post like this.
You are doing the same thing i do, when roudnpenning you just send the horse away and have it go in a circle one way then the other so that you show yourself to both eyes. When you get the horse to look at you soften your body and relax breathe out and they will come to you. They will often lick and chew to show they are learning. My mare was in a acre pasture and i just sent her one way then the other until she began to pay attention to me with one ear, then curving her body to me, then i backed off and she turned to me. I sent her the other way, then watched for the softness to come into that side of her body, then backed off. She turned toward me then i walked up to her and pet her until she relaxed before putting the rope halter on.
When you roundpen you cause the horse to move and get its feet moving so it will relax. Horses relax more when they can move their feet. once they begin to relax you back off there by rewarding the "relax"
You want to be able to bring the horse to you and be able to send teh horse away just by body language...eventually...but you know this already i bet.


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