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Is this safe?

8K views 78 replies 32 participants last post by  Azale1 
#1 ·
I have 3 horses 2 are ours and 1 we are holding for a neighbor. the neighbors horse and our quarter horse like to nip at eachothers halters. They seem to do it everyday but im not sure if its safe? Sometimes they go as far as to bucking and kicking at eachother? Im not sure if this is safe and we should seperate them for a while because they have been in the same pasture for about 3 months now? There really sweet when we take them out but when i put them back in and feed them together there at it again?
 
#2 ·
I don't think you should leave halters on your horses when they are turned out to pasture. There is a lot of danger in doing that.

Are they kicking in play? To reestablish herd order? Aggression?

If you are truly concerned about the horses' safety, you should separate them.
 
#3 ·
I don't think you should leave halters on your horses when they are turned out to pasture. There is a lot of danger in doing that.
I competely agree.
 
#6 ·
I agree that halters shouldn't be left on for a long time. However, when horses are being turned out for part of the day, which many stables do, they will leave them on.

As for the horses nipping and kicking at each other, I'm going to assume they are geldings since mares don't usually do this. They are just playing. Two of our boys nip at each other all the time and they are best buds. They really get into in when the weather gets nice and in the spring. We give them orange cones to play with and that has helped. There's a saying that fits here: " Boys will be boys."

If it is just at feeding to though, they are probably acting aggressive and trying to protect their food or get the others food. At that point, you should step in and correct their behavior.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I imagine they are just establishing hierarchy, but I would also take the halters off. It is too easy to get stuck on fences, trees, etc. I've heard of a horse get it's hoof stuck in it halter from bringing it's hind leg up to scratch their face like a dog does. She broke her neck. I don't mean to scare you, I just want you to see that it is a serious matter to leave halters on. The mare I mentioned was in her stall.

ETA: Mares also establish hierarchy, usandpets. You forget that wild herds do have an alpha mare.

I caution stepping in, though. There is no reason to get hurt. Maybe feed them further away from each, but unless these horses have superb respect for you, I wouldn't get in the middle of a horse fight any sooner than I'd get in the middle if a dog fight. o_O
 
#24 ·
I imagine they are just establishing hierarchy, but I would also take the halters off. It is too easy to get stuck on fences, trees, etc. I've heard of a horse get it's hoof stuck in it halter from bringing it's hind leg up to scratch their face like a dog does. She broke her neck. I don't mean to scare you, I just want you to see that it is a serious matter to leave halters on. The mare I mentioned was in her stall.

ETA: Mares also establish hierarchy, usandpets. You forget that wild herds do have an alpha mare.

I caution stepping in, though. There is no reason to get hurt. Maybe feed them further away from each, but unless these horses have superb respect for you, I wouldn't get in the middle of a horse fight any sooner than I'd get in the middle if a dog fight. o_O
No I didn't forget that there's an alpha mare, but mares usually don't play. If it's establishing a hierarchy, they wouldn't be nipping at the halters. They would be biting at the neck, legs or sides but more likely kicking. They would likely leave serious marks. When playing, they may make contact but not really bad marks.
As for the stepping in, maybe I misunderstood what she meant. When we feed ours they are next to each other but in seperate stalls but close enough to make contact, such as biting. If she is feeding them in the pasture then I wouldn't step in. I would let them settle it on their own or seperate them at feeding time. I have fed our in the pasture by spreading out their bowls but I would have to 'protect' our youngest mare. The others would make her move away from her bowl and take her food. They learned that it's best not to challenge me though.
 
#8 ·
I disagree. I keep halters on both my horses. For the simple reason that they like to escape and are really hard to catch when they do get out. We don't have anything they can get hooked on. My gelding likes to bite and hold on to my mares halter.
 
#10 ·
Ray, did you not read my post? Horses have legs. They do have something to get stuck on.

If your horse is hard to catch, that is a gap in training. My mare was hard to catch at first too. I did not put a band-aid on the situation by leaving her halter on. I learned her real quick that running away from me wasn't fun. She politely puts her nose in her halter now.
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#13 ·
They could very well be playing; we have a 5-year-old Gelding who does that with the older Appaloosa gelding that's his "brother figure." If the ears are pinned it could be a sign that they're establishing the pecking order.

I also agree that halters in the pasture are dangerous. But, then again, they're dangerous even when the horse is tied. My mare spooked because of a drain hose someone was carrying and pulled back, breaking her halter. When she did so, the clasp under her chin (that rests on her cheek) skinned part of her face. The result was over 30 stitches, two weeks off of working, and a lot of treatment for proud flesh.

Horses should always be monitored with a halter on, and not left to free-pasturing. At the livery we rotate the horses into a pen to eat; they're in here for about 10 minutes and someone is always in the back watching the stalls and pens to make sure that the horses don't get into some sort of mischief.

If you've noticed, when horses play they don't "connect." Our playful geldings will buck up, kick out, and "bite" (just scraping each other with their teeth or lipping at one another), but it's never aggressive -- they don't hurt each other. And when it does hurt, the "victim" is often quite content in telling the "assailant" that it did hurt. Just today I watched my "elderly" gelding, Ben, playing with a younger gelding, Oreo. They "bit" at each other's faces, Oreo would rear up a little bit, and then they'd prance around and kick up a little bit. Then it was like "whatever," and they moved on.

If they're turned out overnight I would make sure to especially take the halters off; as many people have said, they pose a danger to the animal's well-being, which is further founded by Creampuff's story.

Personally, I would say that the most dangerous thing is the halter, not the behavior.
 
#15 ·
There are three mares and two geldings where I keep my horses and they all nip and buck a little at eachother. It's just establishing the pecking order as someone else has said. But it's definately not just a gelding thing.

I used to leave a halter on one of mares but one day she got it caught on a piece of wood. She didn't get hurt but she ran around all night with a two foot piece of wood strapped to her face until we finally found her the next morning.
 
#17 ·
But wouldn't one freak accident change your mind? I imagine most people who have horses who suffered a serious accident from wearing a halter also thought the same thing. And wouldn't you feel pretty bad if something did happen? I wouldn't willingly put my horses at risk like that just because it has never happened before.

The mare I mentioned that broke her neck, she was stuck like that over night before morning feeder found her. And she was in a stall. God knows how long she was suffering. =\
 
#22 ·
My horses aren't hard to catch in the pasture. They come right up to you. It's when they get out and are heading to the highway that I have a problem with.

They are watched, they are not allowed to be outside unless someone (me or my dad) is home to put them out and watch them.

They also don't wear their halters in their stalls.

Mine are snug enough that their hooves can't get hooked. And there is nothing in their pasture, no trees or bushes. We have smooth wired fencing or electric fence.
 
#72 ·
My horses aren't hard to catch in the pasture. They come right up to you. It's when they get out and are heading to the highway that I have a problem with.
If you can get close enough to grab their halter then you are close enough to toss a rope over their neck and put on a halter.
:wink:

I only use well fitted leather halters.
I am not anti halter in turn out as long as they fit this category.


(Mine are naked, but a well fitted light weight leather halter is not a bad thing.)
 
#23 ·
I had a gelding come in with a hole in his face that needed stitches. No halter, just playing.
I will sometimes leave halters on when inroducing new horses, even though they spend at least a month separated by a fence before the introductions. I have intervened in horse fights.
I only use well fitted leather halters.
 
#25 ·
That's not necessarily true though. My lead mare reminds my filly of her place with a look, pawing, and will sometimes lash out at her. Horses will aim for the face on occasion. It is also likely that that they aren't nipping the halters, it's just that the halter gets in the way. It is absurd to say that horses establishing the pecking order will only do XYZ, and horses playing will only do ABC. o_O
 
#28 ·
What's not true? Mares don't play? They wouldn't be nipping at each others halters? They might go for the face and the halter gets in the way? If it's hierarchy like you say, there are the warning signs: ear pinning, the "look", and tail swishing. Also there's a difference between nipping and a decisive bite attack.

No it's not really that absurd. It's not that hard to tell if they are playing or if they are really fighting. The problem is that we can't actually see it and we are speculating with what was said. You have your opinion and i'll keep mine that they are probably playing.
 
#26 ·
I have not ever left a halter on a horse in the pasture. If anyone ever witnessed the aftermath of a horse hung up by a halter you'd never leave one on a horse either. I don't know who the horse's owner was, but the horse was dead and there was a full circle of blood about 20 foot in diameter all around the horse. This may be a shock to read, but it may save another horse from the same end of life experience.
 
#27 ·
We don't leave halters on our horses, but we will keep the fly masks on them in the summer time. As long as your horses have plenty of room to get away from each other if they want, and the food is spread out when you feed then they will probably be ok. They are going to play, fight, & get scratched up that is just what horses do.
 
#29 · (Edited)
I will agree with the majority of people who posted, the horses are either playing or establishing dominance.

Are these horses making contact when they kick?
If one horse is particularly agressive to the other, I would separate them. My instructors yearling Hawkeye is a very submissive horse, and his herd-mates took advantage of that. Annie and Joey would bite him and made contact on several occasions. I was cleaning out the run in shed one day and Annie wanted a drink. Hawkeye was "in her way", so she kicked and nailed him right on his left hock. My instructor decided to move Hawkeye to the other pasture that day, and has much less trouble with new herd mate, Monty.

If they aren't making contact, and they don't seem to be agressive (ear pinning, pawing, "intent to hurt" biting, tail swishing, etc.) I would leave them be. Horse play looks similar to fighting, but in reality, playing doesn't hurt either horse. Fighting is intended to hurt (usually just enough to say, "hey, I'm in charge, so do what I tell you".

And I'll be another advocate to take the halters off. Unless your horses are so difficult to catch it takes you two hours to actually get the halter on the horse, don't leave it on. (If this is the case, there are major training issues that need to be adressed.)

The only time I've ever seen somebody leave halters on horses was when a new horse was being introduced to a herd. All of the horses had halters left on in case the newbie needed to be removed from the pasture. All the horses were supervised by myself and my instructor. The halters were removed before we left.
 
#32 · (Edited)
The horses have gotten out before. And the barn is in town, on a 40 mph street (where most people do 50mph), and there is a trailer park full of people who don't know the first thing about caring for a goldfish, let alone catching a horse. All they do is complain about the smell.
The longest one has been out was for 15 minutes.They have no problems being caught, even with no halters on.

My instrucotor also uses a 2.5 acre pasture in the summer out in scenic nowhere. The people who own the property know how to catch horses, and are home 90% of the time. Again, the horses have no problem being caught. Heck, he didn't tie up his qurab mare half the time when she was out of the pasture, and she stood on the lawn with no problem.
 
#34 ·
What do you do when a horse has escaped their pasture? And are prancing around your lawn?

I would say you need a better fence.

I've only had had horses escape on a couple of occasions. It was mainly my foal, when he was small, who would lay down and then roll through the fence. I have only lost ONE adult horse from an enclosure. He was sick and we put him in a neighbor's pasture so he would have more room to move around (because I don't have pasture, just pens) and they had a wire fence and he somehow got through it. Got all scraped up too. :-(

But I have never lost an adult horse out of my pens, and neither have my neighbors.

If your horses are escaping all the time, it is the fence that is the problem.

Now loosing a horse on a trail ride, I HAVE done that a couple of times. :lol:
 
#40 ·
Halters that are breakaway are safe, the facility that I work and board out does day turnout and we leave halters on because bringing in 50 horses everyday is much easier when you just have to clip a lead on. They have safety halters and they do break when they are stressed. The horses are able to get them off in play. The all nylon halters are NOT safe for all day turnout.

OP - at the stable I work at we have a group of 4 geldings who play with each others halters, they grab onto halters and play like a tug o' war with it, they will grab onto anything they can find, branch from a tree, each others blankets, a lead if its too close to the fence and reachable. They're just playing and they nip each other, buck at each other but I would say to probably seperate them if it is getting intense as it can become like a "stallion fight". If they are injuring each other it is safe to say you should probably seperate them. Another paddock we have of about 6 geldings also plays with halters and they run around, nipping, bucking, etc. Most of the time they don't make contact but they will rear, buck etc.

Most of all - use your head! If it looks like its getting into an intense fight, they should be broken up. If it looks like theyre playing like little boys playing cowboys and indians it is probably safe. Use your own judgement and if you have a safety/breakaway halter it is safe to leave on.

Again, we have 50+ horses and some days the halters get left on and they DO break. There is a reason they are called "breakaway" and "safety". Some of the stiffer leather doesn't break away as well(the cheaper all leather halters) but the supple leather halters break and the breakaways with the leather tab by the buckle break well. My horse got his halter stuck on a fence(itching on it) and the thing broke in 3 places. My horse didn't even have a scratch on him. I generally take my personal horses halters off because they play an break them!
 
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