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Larks Trust Fund? FOUND IS PEDIGREE!

7K views 27 replies 16 participants last post by  mlkarel2010 
#1 ·
Ever heard of this stallion? Its my horses sire. What can you guys tell me about him?

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/larks+trust+fund

My horse is eligible for some QH Circuit incentive fund thingy because of him and the girl doesn't want me to get his papers with him when I buy him because she doesn't want him shown. What does all that mean?
 
#3 ·
http://www.aqha.com/association/benefits/programs.html

Scroll down that page a bit, it has some info on the incentive fund. Im not sure how to go about it, but if she won't give you his papers you can get new ones from AQHA.. maybe someone else will know how. If you are buying him, she really should be giving them to you... he's going to be your horse you can do what you want with him.
 
#4 ·
Stepher said:
http://www.aqha.com/association/benefits/programs.html

Scroll down that page a bit, it has some info on the incentive fund. Im not sure how to go about it, but if she won't give you his papers you can get new ones from aqha.. maybe someone else will know how. If you are buying him, she really should be giving them to you... he's going to be your horse you can do what you want with him.
I Strongly agree...
 
#5 ·
I would be tempted to contach aqha and ask some questions. :idea: Something sounds fishy here, I dunno, maybe an unauthorized breeding or something or maybe she's got some false papers on another horse it could be anything !:shock: ...Why would the gal care if you showed him? :?: Of course i've been accused of going into full Nancy Drew mode too!

I don't know much about horse breeding and papering but my sister is a breeder of Great Danes and there is only a couple reasons she wouldn't want one of her dogs shown...Its not a quality dog or it was a wrongful breeding....
 
#6 ·
Well here is her reasoning, she bought him a year ago from a show barn and she couldn't stand the way the horses were treated and she doesn't want stretch to go into a home like that again, here is a copy of the email:
i am not up on my showing that much either. Stretch's dad is "larks trust fund". Stallion owners will start an "incentive fund", i believe the foals have to be nominated for the incentive fund when they are born. when the horse is shown on the QH circuit, the incentive fund will pay money for that horse winning. what this does is encourage owners to compete their horses and the better they do the better the stallion looks and the more they can charge for a stud fee. because stretch is nominated in the incentive fund, he can be competed in the QH circuit shows and win money. you must have the papers to enter him in the shows, so the papers make him more valuable. but stretch hates that kind of showing, it is high stress- unlike open shows which can be more relaxed, but even that depends on the person. i felt it would be better to sell stretch at a lower price without the papers to someone who will do the fun stuff he likes such as trail and team penning. his papers can be purchased separately for an additional $1500. I do not want him to be shown on the circuit, i do not want him to be stressed and unhappy. open shows do not require papers either.
In her next email she said I could have a copy of his papers. If I buy him without the papers, he is 1100, but with would be 2600.

If she has his papers and he is registered to her does that make him legally hers? He will still be registered to her, and that makes me nervous, what if she takes him away? :eek:
 
#7 ·
When my fiance and I were buying our horses, when we put the down payment on them, we got a copy of their papers, and when we paid the rest off, we got the originals.

I would be wary with her keeping the original because he would still be registered to her. You wouldn't be able to transfer him to your name because they (atleast the ApHC did) needed the original when you sent in the transfer papers.

I understand his owner not wanting him to be shown because of how show horses are generally treated, but not everyone is going to be like that and if he will be your horse, you get to decide what you can and cannot do with him.
 
#8 ·
She said she will have the papers and if I want them later down the road, she'll sell them to me.

Thats what I thought too. If he is mine and I want to show him in some crazy QH Circuit (even though I haven't the slightest what that is) I should be able to. The only showing I do are Open Shows and I don't even care if I win, I do it to mess around and have fun with my friends who show.

Would it be risky to buy him? The only thing I care about is having the horse.
 
#9 ·
I would concider it risky...I wouldn't want to buy anything be it a horse,vehicle or can of soup where someone else retained legal papers on it. IMO th etrust fund making it more expensive for people to breed to the stud is a good thing..help reduce unwanted horse numbers. Once you buy something it should be yours to do what ever you want.
 
#10 ·
Well, your horse's sire is out of Rugged Lark, arguably the most incredible AQHA show horse to have ever lived. He won the AQHA World Show Superhorse title twice over his career (basically means he was the best horse in the world no matter what discipline, bar none -- twice.) He is the reason Lynn Palm is so famous in the Quarter Horse industry. She was his exhibitor / trainer. He is also the only Superhorse to produce another Superhorse (actually he's sired two other superhorses), and some of his off-spring have done some other pretty awesome things in their show careers as well.

His bloodlines are a bit of old news though. He was absolutely huge in the late 80's and early 90's and he performed his farewell show tour in 1997, hitting many of the major shows in the USA. Still, Rugged Lark lines are nothing to sneer at, and probably never will be. He died on Oct. 26, 2004.

Anyway, I don't know much about your horse but his bloodlines are good. I can't seem to find much about the actual sire, but Rugged Lark is an outstanding name to have on his pedigree.

Also, I have to agree with everyone else. The seller has no right to withhold the actual papers. If you want to show, thats your own business. I wouldn't buy him until she agrees to hand over the paperwork.
 
#12 ·
I can't afford that extra $1500 for the papers, that would make me pay $2600.

I really like this horse already, it was like that instant connection.

The thing is is saying "The papers or no deal," would mean no deal. She isn't in a hurry to sell him at all.

Would it make sense to have her transfer the papers to my name and then just let her keep them? I just want the horse to be mine, in every possible way with no risk or strings attached without forking out 1500 more.


EDIT:
I called the AQHA, they said she has to submit to them that the horse has been sold without papers and his registration number and registered name must be on the bill of sale as well as a note that he was sold WITHOUT the papers. She has to get a hold of the AQHA with my information so that way the horse will be legally mine as far as the AQHA is concerned however, she will retain the papers and I will not be able to buy a copy of it from the AQHA unless she resubmits the sale saying that I now have the rights to his papers.
 
#15 ·
If you want the horse and don't plan on using him for breeding or show, get him without the papers. Do as the AQHA said and get the bill of sale registered with them so its all legal.
I've never heard of anything like this, holding the registration papers hostage :shock: I don't understand what good the papers would do her if she didn't own the horse. Guess its to keep you from breeding/showing ?
 
#16 ·
Thats exactly her reasoning behind it Vida. I think it is silly but as long as he is transfered to me and I have the option to buy his papers from her later on then I'm happy. Maybe Ill save up 1500 and go back and buy them next year, I don't know. :?
 
#17 ·
Ok, so I went and looked up Larks Trust Fund on all breed pedigree and then viewed his foals, Lark had only ONE 2002 gelding, since Stretch is six it HAS to be him.

I see three bars on there but its way back, and just off his pedigree is man o war. I see why she doesn't want him shown, he has rather impressive lines. I almost feel bad buying that he will be used for trail riding and scavenger hunts and stuff instead.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/larks+rugged+cierra
 
#19 ·
why doesnt she want him shown? Is he trained to ride QH style? Rugged Lark was HUGE HUGE HUGE...
 
#20 ·
Abby said:
Ok, so I went and looked up Larks Trust Fund on all breed pedigree and then viewed his foals, Lark had only ONE 2002 gelding, since Stretch is six it HAS to be him.

I see three bars on there but its way back, and just off his pedigree is man o war. I see why she doesn't want him shown, he has rather impressive lines. I almost feel bad buying that he will be used for trail riding and scavenger hunts and stuff instead.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/larks+rugged+cierra
all the more reason to show him....
 
#21 ·
What I don't understand is, if she doesn't want to sell him with papers and be shown, then why bother bragging what his bloodlines are? Just don't mention it and let the horse be sold as is, as a grade and destroy the papers. My guts say don't buy.

Papers for a gelding are just a birth certificate and ownership title, but she won't need them and selling the horse means giving up control. She should consider leasing if she's not really wanting to give that up. Or she's really wanting the larger sum, but regardless, it's shady.

You don't buy a car from someone and they brag that it's a ferrari, but will cost you more to have the hood ornament and title because they don't want you to drive it certain way, though it's made to be driven.
 
#23 ·
I can't remember my QH ID off the top of my head. Tomorrow I will pull this horse and see if he has a show record. I think it's pretty interesting. I'm also going to pull the owners name because I'm curious if this chick that is trying to sell the horse really owns him. If he's really a rugged lark grandson he should be worth some money.
 
#24 ·
The person I talked to

who has this horse for sale on horsetopia and Dreamhorse sounds legit and didn't say anything about not signing papers over - I think whoever Abby talked to is someone different and it must be a different horse - I hope if she bought that horse in April it worked out for her -
 
#25 ·
hes really a wonderful horse and looks well set up. I've seen him (the horse abby bought) and hes really has pretty good conformation. Persnoally I think that if she found what he really like doing he would be quite a steal. Maybe thats why the former owner was so paranoid about the papers. I don't see why she should withhold information about Strech unless it is in the shady side.
 
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