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sixlets 03-20-2011 11:13 AM

Best Dressage Sires?
 
My dad is considering investing in dressage horses by buying young, training (with a pro) and selling, or investing in a barn. I'm trying to also convince him to consider breeding. What are your favorite producing sires? The mares that we would breed to, and lease the first, would be Donnerhall bloodlines. I was thinking a Rubinstein son, but couldn't find one at stud that I liked. I also really like Quaterback, and he has a son near me in Michigan, but the stud is too closely related to my mare. Any studs you like? Preferably in US, as shipping is cheaper.

P.S.
We are considering breeding Dulcinea, I know she's only 3, we plan on waitng quite a few years for her. But she has sisters that are for sale and of breeding age.

Spyder 03-20-2011 12:13 PM

Here are some links you might look at.

The first is a few years old but covers several different WB registries so you should be looking at these in the bloodlines of anything you look at.

The Top Dressage Sires of International Horses 1990-1995

And here you should take a look at this article from Eurodressage

Great Dressage Sires of the World, Donnerhall the Greatest | eurodressage

Donnerhall's bloodline is in my boys background to a small degree.

sixlets 03-20-2011 09:47 PM

Thanks so much Spyder! That's a really great reference article. Weltmeyer line is looking better and better :)

~*~anebel~*~ 03-21-2011 07:36 PM

It really depends on what the purpose of the horse is. When breeding for a performance horse with the hopes of going to the olympics you have different bloodlines in mind than if you are trying to breed a good quality amatuer dressage horse which will be able to do the upper levels.
When breeding for a performance horse the three main traits that one would be aiming for are movement, athletecism and soundness. Ridability and temperment are nice sidebars but rarely happen by accident. As a result these horses are usually only ridable by experienced professionals, especially as young horses.
When aiming for an amatuer's upper level horse the three main traits are rideablility, soundess and finally movement. Athletecism and temperment are nice sidebars and can come with good line mixing. These horses are bred to be ridable by a large portion of the equine community and are generally more sellable.

In my experience many of the dutch (KWPN) lines will produce horses who fall in the first category. Jazz, Krack C, Ferro, etc all tend to produce very athletic horses who are high strung and have a strong personality. There are some exceptions - many Samber horses end up very ridable, however quite sensitive and so need a very soft touch.

My experiences with studs from other books are as follows:
Weltmeyer (and the Hano W line in general) can produce horses either way. Some of the W lines produce athletic, stubborn and high strung horses which will bite, kick and generally be a**holes. However, some of these W line horses depending on the cross are very sweet, sensitive and usually also quite hot.
Akzent and other A line horses are generally sweet, ridable and nice to be around but tend to have lateral walks and soundness issues.
Grande and other G line horses produce heavier set horses whom are more old style, but are also quite ridable.
Donnerhall is a legend and some ******ed percent of horses at the WEG last year had this line. A very good line for both international horses and very ridable horses.
Rubenstein is another very good line, most of his sons and daughters follow very closely his body type and he has many horses in the GP around the world. Another very good line that has produced some great horses (Relevant and Royal Diamond come to mind).
I am partial to Rubenstein's son Rotspon (the sire of my horse). Rotspon has another son, Rigo, who is in Florida competing at small tour and consistently scoring in the 70% range. I would bet that he will be on the Pan Am team. These horses are however usually quite small (16-16.2hh). I have actually met Rotspon and he is insanely nice. His stall door was wide open, he was tied up and he didn't really seem too concerned about anything in particular, except if you had a sugar cube in your pocket. Not studdy at all (although I'm sure training/experience has something to do with that) and generally a really cool horse to be around.
Londonderry is another Hano line which produces a hot, slightly tempermantal horse. Could be an ammy horse with the correct cross, and the right ammy.
Cor de la Bryere is generally considered a jumping line, but is gaining popularity with correct crossing in the dressage world. My horse is a decendant of this line, his damsire being Come Back II.
Come Back II has sired some horses of note in the dressage world, Calecto V and Come On III, both of which have seen success in CDIs and international competition in very recent years. A great typey horse with lots of prescence, athletecism and good rideability, however semen is not available in NA. There are a few sons in NA of varying straw prices depending fame of the horse.
Bolero is a good line to add type, but can be hot, much line the londondery line.
I personally am not a fan of the Sandro Hit craze going on right now. I find the horses to be disproportionate with no real redeeming qualities, they are not particularily athletic and have an average temparment, but are rideable.
Although I have not personally had experience with the Quattro lines, they are very athletic and impressive. Quattro's progeny include Quando Quando, Quantum Tyme and Quarterline. Grandsons include Quarterman (Quaterback's sire). So obviously an international bloodline which appears to be rideable and judging from some of the inspection results is. I am still out on these horses however would jump at the chance to ride one.
Of course there are many many more stallions and taking a look at a stallion guide or handbook in your area will give you a better gauge of semen availability.


So whith a Donnerhall, you are starting with a very good line, it really depends on what you want to add to the horse. It is useful to know what the crosses generally produce, so google and youtube are your friend. If you know of a breeder with experience in the lines you are looking at, then talk to them about their general findings with each cross. List your three top traits and breed for those, everything else is a bonus and with luck and a good cross you can end up with an athletic, ridable, sound horse with a good temparment and movement.

Good luck!

PS - these are just my personal experiences and opinions of these horses. I have my own biases and tend to place rideability over many other traits. Other people may have different opinions.

sixlets 03-21-2011 08:44 PM

Quote:

Rubenstein is another very good line, most of his sons and daughters follow very closely his body type and he has many horses in the GP around the world. Another very good line that has produced some great horses (Relevant and Royal Diamond come to mind).
I am partial to Rubenstein's son Rotspon (the sire of my horse). Rotspon has another son, Rigo, who is in Florida competing at small tour and consistently scoring in the 70% range. I would bet that he will be on the Pan Am team. These horses are however usually quite small (16-16.2hh). I have actually met Rotspon and he is insanely nice. His stall door was wide open, he was tied up and he didn't really seem too concerned about anything in particular, except if you had a sugar cube in your pocket. Not studdy at all (although I'm sure training/experience has something to do with that) and generally a really cool horse to be around.


I've seen some Donnerhall-Rubinstein horses and like how they turn out. Thanks so much for name of his grandson, if the sire is younger or not as well-known they can be cheaper but still produce great babies. Thank you so much! I love learning about all these studs haha :)

CJ82Sky 03-21-2011 09:15 PM

awesome info! i adore Edelweiss duBonce but i'm admittedly biased since i'll be breeding to him in a few years haha (and im not nearly as educated on wb lines the way i know tbs)

PintoTess 03-21-2011 09:42 PM

Regardez moi is a good type. Same with Ferrero Rocher
http://www.cyberhorse.net.au/tve/dre...gardezmoi3.jpgRegardez moi

http://www.cyberhorse.net.au/tve/pho...erorocher3.jpg
Ferrero Rocher_
I have seen him perform and his trot is just STUNNING!! So much expression and his collection, WOW!!

sixlets 03-23-2011 06:22 PM

That black sire is GORGEOUS O_O I wonder if I could get a black out of him with a brown mare...
There are so many choices! At least I'll have a couple years to think about it.

~*~anebel~*~ 03-23-2011 06:33 PM

Was on Dressage Daily today:

Yvonne Losos de Muņiz and Royal Affair Win the Big One at the Wellington Classic Dressage II CDI

Horse is sired by Royal Diamond and out of a Donnerhall mare - just though I would post it!

Kayty 04-21-2011 05:35 AM

Regardez Moi is nice - but not a favourite. He is far too publicised and the Ryan's talk him up to no end, which I think contributes to much of his popularity. A friend of mine has a 4 year old by Fabio (Reg. Moi) out of a Jive magic mare. He's very nice, but seems to be more of a Young Horse class contender, that will be successful there but may not do so well once it gets to small tour.

I don't mind Ferrero Rocher, another friend has a 3 year old by him that she brought from Nick directly. VERY nice 3 year old that has potential to climb the levels easily. I was impressed.

However, if the opportunity was available to breed via frozen semen, I would bypass Australian stallions. There's nice ones, but the international and particularly European stallions are much preferable in my books. Though the US is producing some VERY nice types of late and seems to be in hot contention with Europe as the 'place to be' for dressage.

I am a big Rotspon fan, I have yet to see one that I don't like. All that I have seen over here, have been exceptionally trainable, with 3 very good and rideable paces, and all very similar in build, unless out of a revolting mare, in which case I don't even look.

Weltmeyer, as Anebel stated above, tends to throw very athletic, competitive types. However the brains don't tend to be suitable for amateur riders. My coach has bred two from W lines, out of a Graf Landau mare (who was SUPERB!). Both are stunning.
The 6 year old is by Whisper lV (IMP/dec.) and is highly trainable. However he is an arrogant, piggy a-hole. Again as Anebel described, he bites, he kicks and he also fights. He has no fear at all, you could beat him around the head with a crow bar and he'd still fight you and not back down. Hence he has been interesting to train. But going well and started to settle.

The second, is by Rituel (IMP. By Weltmeyer ll). He is enormous (a whisker off 17h at 3 years old with HUGE joints) and just as pig headed as the 6 year old. The same VERY trainable temperament, absolutely unbelievable paces and looseness. But again, he will kick with no warning what so ever, he bites at every given opportunity and if you attempt to reprimand him for the behaviour, he fights you.

Both outstanding competition horses that will make their mark, but must be handled by a professional.

Personally, I'd be breeding towards ambitious amateurs. You want something athletic and trainable, but quiet enough as well.

Breeding is a juggling game and lots of trial and error. Good luck!


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