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Leaving a horse tied for hours?

61K views 192 replies 63 participants last post by  Azale1 
#1 ·
What is the point of leaving a horse in training tied for hours? I know that the theory is that it teaches them patience, but it seems cruel to me. I am trying to be open minded as some of the trainers that I am considering for my horse use this practice and I know that I have heard some of the big name trainers say that they will leave a horse tacked up and tied for hours. Interested in opinions pro and con.
 
#64 ·
When I got bubbles I was only learning to ride, and i was nervous because she would dance around when tied up and one day managed to rip out a fence, nearly giving me fence wire braces (bailing twine didn't break *HeadDesk) so after that I didn't tie her up and would put up with her dancing around me while I tacked her up. Then my neighbour took her for a while and left her tied up for hours one day, I got her back and ever since then she has not flinched while tied up.

So while I don't leave Mitchell tied up for hours on end, I do make the point to tie him up for EVERYTHING I do with him, even the little things like adjusting a strap on a cover, which I can very easily do in the paddock.
 
#65 ·
Our mares are rarely tied for hours, but will do so without problem when needed. I view this just like having a horse stand still, load in a trailer, etc. It is not done as punishment, but as something that just needs to be done at times (I don't like going to the dentist, but I do). My approach with the young ones has always been... I need to do _________ (pick/trim feet, give a shot/wormer, clean a cut, put tack away, etc) and you need to behave, stand still and just let me do it without fussing. Patience and consistency is all you need, and it's great to have horses that you can just walk out to and do these things whether they are tied, saddled, or loose without having to bring them all in every time.
 
#66 ·
I think that tying a horse with something that it can break only teaches it to set back and break everything it is tied with.

Find a safe place to tie it with something it cannot break. I cannot stress how counter-productive it is to intentionally tie a horse with something you know it is going to break. It only teaches it to break equipment.
 
#68 ·
That's what I thought too...how can a horse learn to tie solid if it knows that every time it flips out, it will get free?

I recently went to a big trail ride, and of course, I learned that with these horse guys that it's a lot more about sitting around drinking than it is about actually riding :-p My mare stayed quietly tied to a tree all day, dozing. I could leave, go inside, go to the bathroom, and knew that when I got back she would still be quietly standing there. There was another rider there who couldn't tie her horse at all. It was a big, spooky, reactive warmblood, and she had to stand there holding it for hours because she couldn't tie it.

I am very glad that the trainer taught my horse to tie. Tying is a necessary skill in my opinion. It's something that a horse needs to learn. In fact, if a horse I was considering buying wouldn't tie, I don't think I would be taking that horse home-it's that important to me.

I like a horse that you can tie anywhere, anytime, and trust that it will still be there hours later dozing. I absolutely despise horses that pull, rear, flip out when they are tied.
 
#70 ·
I don't think ive ever left Mocha tied for hours, maybe more like an hour, for training purposes. But I find it's very helpful for many reasons. As long as the horse isn't hitting it's head on anything or digging at the ground, I see no problem with it. Mocha doesn't "check out" or anything like that, in fact, she doesnt even mind it a bit.
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#72 ·
I could see how it sounds cruel, but what else would the horse be doing? Grazing? Standing in it's stall? I don't think the horse would mind at all, though he may get bored every once in awhile.
 
#76 ·
That is a possibility, but it's also a possibility when you have something that breaks. I had a mare that broke the cross ties and cast herself against the stall on the other side. The barn was an old cattle barn that the stalls where tubes, they had put up plywood for safety. She kicked through the plywood and had her legs through the bars. We are lucky she didn't break her legs. The reason she fell is BECAUSE the cross ties broke.

Generally speaking (not always as there is always a chance for something to happen) they brace themselves and are pretty balanced so aren't as likely to fall. They are more likely to fall after what they are bracing against suddenly is no longer there.

You should always be close by if you are doing anything that could be potentially dangerous. However that being said, you need to do what you have too to get the job done.
 
#78 ·
My personal opinion on this (and it is just an opinion as I'm not a trainer) is that we need to teach our horses to deal with as many situations as possible. Our domesticated horses are a long way from the wild and free horses of the past. Their lives have changed completely and they will face many things in life that a wild horse would never have to. I believe it is our responsibility to teach our horses to deal with as many situations as possible...before it becomes a have to.

You start desensitizing a trail horse to scary objects and sounds at your barn in the safety of the arena or round-pen long before you take him out on the trail (or you should any way). It prepares them for uncertainty of what happens on the trail. If you didn't, the first time a bag comes blowing by you in the wind, you have a bolting or even bucking horse on your hands.

To me it is the same theory with tying. You can't wait until your horse has to be tied for a long period of time (for whatever reason) and then worry about it. That is a disaster waiting to happen. Why not go ahead and prepare him for that...just in case.

To make an argument that we shouldn't teach our domesticated horses to stand tied because wild horses don't do it is...well, just pointless IMO. It is no excuse not to prepare them for the life they now live.
 
#79 ·
Standing tied is one thing, and I would like this to be for a few hours, but then I would walk the horse before tying again. I would not leave them for 10 hours, unless I was a long trail rider and the horse was tied overnight - for most of us, I think we can give a horse a break, even at a show.


As for tying a horse to a tree. I used to board at a place where the owner was old school and has his way of doing things. He would not hear anything else. He got a young horse who knew little, and to teach it respect he put on two halters, and three lead ropes and tied the horse one inch from a solid tree. The horse freaked, slashed up his face and eye, and flipped over. I walked away but the owner came in with a calm horse that now does what it needs to do.

I would never do this to a horse, but he was successful in breaking the horses will or soul. And I am not a NH follower, but it is not for me.

I can see a need for a 4 hour tie, but not a 10+ hour.
 
#81 ·
That is what I am saying...She said she had left him for 10 hours..So no watching him or having something to free him quickly. Unless she did and worded it wrong..

I would never ever do that to my horse. If she got stuck etc she would freak out and be worse off than she was before.
 
#82 ·
Well, I live on a VERY busy US Highway where thousands of semi trucks go past every day at 70MPH. Sometimes it takes me several minutes to get out of my own driveway and out onto that highway. The very last thing I need is to have a loose horse running out on it.

So, I teach them all to tie solidly and to tie well. I have 60 horses and they ALL will stand tied for hours including my two stallions. I have several very safe places to tie horses up. I have three oilfield storage tanks that have been made into a grain storage bins (a 400 barrel tank hold 1 1/2 semi-loads of grain and stands 20 feet tall X 12 feet in diameter). I now only use 1 as a grain bin and the other two have been made into tack rooms. They are smooth and have had big horseshoes welded to the outside of them some 7 feet above the ground.

A second horseshoe is welded some 8 feet away. I can run a strong 20 foot nylon rope THROUGH the one horseshoe and tie it off to the second one. A quick release knot allows me to tie a horse to one of the horseshoes, seven feet above the ground and I can quickly untie the horse without getting near it if I have to.

I tie a horse long enough that it can stand comfortably. By having the horseshoe 7 feet above the ground, I can give a horse enough freedom to be comfortable and still not have the rope long enough to have him get in trouble. About as high as his withers seems to work the best.

I never have to worry about the horses I raise and teach to tie, but the spoiled ones I trained for so many years were a different story. Many set back and threw themselves to the ground when they found they could not break their halters. This is the kind of violent reaction you can get when you teach horses that they can break anything they are tied with. It is soooo much better to not spoil them in the first place. I spent a lifetime cleaning up enept people's messes, so I can tell you first hand that doing it right the first time is so important.

I start out tying young ones for short periods of time and ALWAYS put them up when they are standing quietly. After tying one several times for grooming, I leave them alone while I work on a different one but stay where I can keep an eye on all of them. They are most likely too throw a fit when you take other horses away and they are the only one still standing there. So, I make sure they are standing quietly before I put the last one up.

Once a horse has been well taught to stand tied, you can then tie it anywhere, and not have to worry about it. I never give it a thought to tie a trail horse overnight to a tree limb, picket line or trailer and go to bed. I will tie such a horse with enough rope to lay down, eat hay and reach a water bucket that has been set in an old tire. The rope typically comes a foot from the ground. I have also taught a good many horse to 'stake out' on a 20 foot rope tied to a stake. Horses that have been taught to properly give to a rope will learn very quickly to not fight and will learn to step out of the rope. I used to run pack strings and take out hunters in the mountains of Western Colorado. Every trail horse and pack horse was taught to stake out. Other people would send my their horses to tech them to tie and to stake out well.

It all starts with teaching a horse to stand quietly while tied. To me, this is a most important lesson for every horse to learn.
 
#83 ·
Love the oil tank idea Cherie. Brilliant set-up. Although I think I'd be hard pressed to find one here in the middle of corn country lol!

I like you have never had issues with my own as they learn from the time they are weanlings, but have also dealt with several spoiled horses for others that were never expected. I took a colt a couple yrs ago that had been to a cowboy colt starter (normally not a problem) but he just saddled and did everything with him in the middle of the pen, never tied him as his only objective was to get on his back. My every day barn saddle is an old custom Charles Crawley (he sold to Crates years ago) and there is no way I could toss that old heavy thing one armed on a dancing green colt! He was rideable but all of the training basics had been skipped. So of course we started over at the post of knowledge.

I too live near a very busy highway, it's about a 1/2 mile away. It's a major highway that runs cross country so it's always loaded with long haul truckers and a nasty S curve right off of our little country road. I shudder at the thought of the outcome of a loose horse.

As far as the stud who was tied for 10 hrs, I say kudos to you. If that's what it took, I would have absolutely done the same. Any horse that breaks free can be dangerous, a stud even more so. I judged a show once where a young couple had a young stud (imho they had zero business with him to begin with) The stud freaked at the trailer when tied & busted loose on a packed show grounds. Before he was caught he had chewed up a couple geldings & covered several mares. I stopped the class in the pen, had them stay put and joined to help catch him. Once caught all information was exchanged and they were asked to leave the show grounds. Fortunately for other owners they did take care of vet bills and shots to abort the mares he had gotten too....if they had tied his dumb butt up for 10 hours and let him fuss it out the situation would have turned out much differently.
 
#84 · (Edited)
There is so much great input here in this thread. What I found to use for a tie rail is 3 surplus - 10 foot long railroad ties. Each upright got a hole dug and concrete poured to set them in. Then the cross rail make certain it is at least wither high or taller,add gusset plates and bolted securely. After getting that done only one horse here started to pitch fit, wanna know what I did? I told said horse, "you want to pitch a fit, well here goes, I kicked him square in the belly, waved my arms. As soon as he realized I was the "alpha mare" he did back down.
 
#85 ·
I know so much good input here... it reminds me of the story that I read on the fuglyblog about a world class trainer that tied a horse to a tree to teach 'em and the said horse ended up killing himself and the entire area was completely blood soaked. Good for you candandy49 for kicking said horse you are a winner!
 
#94 ·
it reminds me of the story that I read on the fuglyblog about a world class trainer that tied a horse to a tree to teach 'em and the said horse ended up killing himself and the entire area was completely blood soaked.
I am not sure I would use the term world class trainer and the horse (if we are talking about the same situation) had known issues with being tied and said trainer knew it.
 
#86 ·
When I tie a horse I make sure they are tied solid also. I do not what them getting away. Once they learn they can get loose that is all it takes and it is very very hard to teach them that they can not get loose and to not pull. If they never learn it the first time then they have it and they do not continue to pull in an attempt to get loose.
 
#87 ·
I prepare and teach my horses to stand tied. The point is that I teach them so that they are happy to be tied and there is absolutely no abuse or kicking or strangling or anything like that to "get them to understand". It is important to tie them to things that are not going to come apart like a gate etc since that could also create terrible injuries. It could be that everyone here that talks about tying is teaching their horse but they are not communicating that. I know people who think teaching a horse to trailer load also involves whipping, bum ropes whatever and in the end you have a horse that won't load or that loads but is a nervous wreck the whole time they are in the trailer. Same thing with tying: if you teach them it is a good place then it will be retained. If you just drag them to a wall and make them "fight it out" then chances are they will not tie reliably either since there may be a time they get tied to something that isn't so strong - now what do you think will happen then. So in conclusion we have to teach/prepare our horse and not just expect them to "understand" when they can't get away. The same thing is true for all aspects of horse development the more we get horses to relax and think the things we want are good the better the horse will be. It really is simple, however, it means that we humans have to learn things and become better ourselves. Maybe that is where the challenge is.
 
#88 ·
There's an assumption in the conclusion that people who tied their horses solid have made:

"He never tried to break free again!" doesn't mean he never will (if still alive).

The longer you leave that horse tied, the more chance there is that he'll test it. :) Nothing much else to do, right?
 
#89 ·
You are also making the assumption that no matter how well they are trained that they will never test it. All mine are well trained and tie well. They all give very well to pressure they under stand very well about being tied yet they will still test it from time to time. Does not matter how well trained they are they will still at some point test it. If they get loose when they test it they will keep doing it. That is why I tie them solid. If they test it and they do not get loose they are less likely to test it again. If they get loose they are more likely to test it again. B/C they have learned something by testing it.
 
#91 ·
I understand what you are saying. My point is that you are better off tying a horse solid to begin with. Teach them what they need to know but at the end of the day if they get loose they will keep testing it.
 
#92 ·
Horses will keep testing the rope whether they are tied to something solid or not but if they are not prepared and you tie them to something solid then that is abuse. Now some horses like your really nice Pocos may be fine; however, there are plenty of other highly reactive, uneducated horses (which I believe are being called spoiled) that will likely kill themselves.
 
#93 ·
I used to train a lot of Arabians and most of them came to me thoroughly spoiled by people that told me "you can't do this or that with him" etc. They had been taught that they had no boundaries because they were Arabians.

I also used to get a number of big, stout TBs in to break after the yearling sales every fall in KY. Most of them, too, had not been tied outside of in their stalls where they could not set back.

I trained all of them to stand tied solidly and to go correctly on a hot walker. I did not kill any of them and did not injure any of them and they were very 'reactive' kinds of horses. Many went on to great show records and noteworthy race records. The trainers at the track always liked to get horses that I started because they were so well mannered and never threw fits at the gate or in the saddling paddock.

Being a 'hot-blood' does NOT mean that a horse cannot be trained to have good manners including being tied however long you want to tie it.
 
#102 ·
I used to train a lot of Arabians and most of them came to me thoroughly spoiled by people that told me "you can't do this or that with him" etc. They had been taught that they had no boundaries because they were Arabians.
Arabians are very smart horses and are not difficult at all.

Being a 'hot-blood' does NOT mean that a horse cannot be trained to have good manners including being tied however long you want to tie it.
Of course not.

Cherie you seem to focus on horses that have been mishandled by people and I personally find horses like this are quite easy to work with and turn into well behaved horses. What I find more difficult is modifying behaviors of horses that have been abused and stupid people doing stupid things because they don't understand or they misunderstand. That is why I think it is important to explain how we teach horses. You have not done that very well in this thread.
 
#95 ·
I do not believe tying horses for an extended period of time is cruel either. I saddle break horses, and if I get one who is really impatient I'll tie him or her up. It's a good training technique and look at it this way most horses stand up all day in the pasture or stall so besides being "stuck" to something it's not all that different.
 
#96 ·
Not sure why TLO you think that Pocos are not reactive horses and why that the horses I have are not reactive. A good reiners is very reactive. They are just taught to control it.
 
#97 ·
Reiner - I am pretty sure that you teach your horses to tie before you tie them to something solid - right. As far as the pocos go - they are easy compared to the other breeds I have worked with that is what makes them desirable. Of course they need to have some get up and go but compared to a hot warmblood I will say it again - easy!

You are all focusing on just tying them up and leaving them for hours. In contrast I am focusing on teaching them to tie before you tie them up and walk away. Do guys realize how many people out there hear what you are saying and then just tie them to something solid and hope for divine intervention. Lots of people and that is why so many horses have issues tying.

Cherie I read some of your posts and I think that you are more than likely quite effective with your horses but I also think that you are not communicating what it is that you do to teach a horse. Instead you focus on what it is that the horse must do for you which should be your goal (as it is I'm sure) but having a goal without discussing how you arrived at it is not very useful. Sadly this leads a lot of people to just drag their horses to the nearest tree and leave them. Guess what happens they learn how not to tie.

I have a pretty diverse herd of horses and guess what they all tie and all have great manners and I don't force them and I don't abuse them.
 
#98 ·
I teach my horses to tie from day one. It starts but teaching them to lead. It is a progression from there. However once they actually start to tie they get tied solid even when they are tided as weanling.

Boy you have not worked with my Poco Bred horses at least ones with Poco close up when crossed with Doc Bar horses and then add in some Peppy.

Then lets talk about Dun It horses. What makes they great is the fact that they are very responsive up horses.

The difference is that they are taught to control that from day one. At least the good ones are. I do not keep laid back lazy horses. Had one once and sold him. They do not work well.
 
#99 ·
I actually find horses that are responsive way easier to work with and I am 100% sure that I would have no problem working with your horses whatsoever. What I find more complicated is horses that appear slow (or lazy as you call them) and then they are extremely reactive. I have never seen a quarterhorse act like that. I know a women here locally that works with warmbloods and she says that when someone sent her a quarterhorse she thought that she should pay them to work with the horse because it was soooo easy. I know some AQHAs can be a bigger challenge than others - of course - but in general and comparing to other breeds especially warmbloods these little AQHAs are a piece of cake. I can assure you that I have worked with lots of AQHAs.
 
#100 ·
Just my personal opinion here, but you are WAY over generalizing breeds here :wink:

To ASSume that all AQHAs are "a piece of cake" would just be ignorant on your part.

We have several top quality show horses (including both AQHAs and Warmbloods) at the barn I board at and some of the Warmbloods make the AQHAs look like basketcases.
 
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