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-   -   Duns? (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-colors-genetics/duns-83323/)

lilruffian 04-08-2011 01:58 PM

Duns?
 
So i was just wondering about dun genetics, particularly in Fjords.
I know that all pb Fjords are duns of some variation (brown, white, yellow, red or black dun) but was wondering how you can get certain colors?

For example, eventually i would love to own either a red dun, yellow dun or white dun Fjord, but since 80% of all Fjords are brown dun, these other colors are not very common. So how would one go about breeding for one?
There is a farm in the States that own both a white dun & a red dun stallion. I was just wondering what the chances are if crossed with my mare (for example) whose parents were both brown dun?

For the red dun stallion (i dont know what he's been tested for) but his sire was a white dun & his dam a brown dun.
For the white dun stallion, they say that the majority of his foals have been white dun...
Here's their site if you need reference. Norwegian Fjord Horses for Sale, Icelandic Horses For Sale, Norwegian Fjord Stallions at Stud - Deep Creek Farm

Poseidon 04-08-2011 02:00 PM

Fjords all look like they're just different shades of bay dun to me, but I don't know a whole lot about their genetics. If that were the case, then you really couldn't breed for a specific shade, it would just come out being whatever. Kind of like the huge range of shades of sorrel/chestnut, you can't control it, but you can have an almost orange horse or a very dark red horse.

lilruffian 04-08-2011 04:46 PM

Well with Fjords it is the same as with any other breed. I believe that certain horses carry the dun gene, grulla gene, red dun, etc... just wondering how one might breed for it. For example; if you were just to cross a regular dun horse with a red dun, what would you most likely get??

Poseidon 04-08-2011 05:19 PM

Take their base colours and punch them into the colour calculator. (Also, try to put everything as heterozygous if possible. If you leave it "Unknown", it'll alter the results). The calculator has all of these as options anyway.

Bay Dun (regular dun) = Bay + Dun
Grulla/o = Black + Dun
Red Dun = Chestnut + Dun
Dunalino = Palomino + Dun
Dunskin = Buckskin + Dun

Dun is just a modifier that alters existing colours.

haviris 04-09-2011 12:39 AM

[QUOTE=lilruffian;991034] I believe that certain horses carry the dun gene, grulla gene, red dun, etc... QUOTE]

Just a note there is no "grulla gene", just a dun gene, grullo is black + dun.

I don't know enough about fjords, so no idea how their colors work, I've seen a pic of a grullo fjord, but not a red dun or white dun(?). Because all fjords are dun, you've got that covered. For red dun, the best way would be to breed red dun to red dun, but you also have a chance as long as both parents carry a red gene. For grullo (again, starting w/ two grullo's, and guaranteed if one is homozygous for black would be best), but as long as neither are AA and one or both are black based there's a chance.

NdAppy 04-09-2011 08:02 PM

I just want to point out, that if you are looking for a certain shade/color you are better off buying.

lilruffian 04-09-2011 09:20 PM

I thought so, only they're hard to find lol, especially around here.
Breeding was just an idea for the far future (maybe, maybe no) & was wondering what the best way to breed for a certain color would be? What tests, etc to have done..

SorrelHorse 04-13-2011 05:28 PM

Well if I'm not mistaken, isn't the brown dun dominant?

So if the others are recessive, then I would want to breed the stud to a mare with the recessive gene in her past. This gives you the better chance to get the color colt you want.

Quixotic 04-17-2011 10:01 PM

Brown Dun = Bay + Dun. The horse carries at least 1 copy each of Extension & Agouti (E? A?), homozygous for Dun, & no Creme.

White Dun = Bay + Cream + Dun (dunskin). The horse carries at least 1 copy each of Extension & Agouti (E? A?), homozygous for Dun, & 1 copy of Creme.

Red Dun = chestnut + Dun. The horse is recessive for Extension (ee), may or may not carry Agouti, homozygous for Dun, & no Creme.

Yellow Dun = chestnut + cream + Dun (dunalino). The horse is recessive for Extension (ee), may or may not carry Agouti, homozygous for Dun, & 1 copy of Creme.

Black/Grey Dun = Black + Dun (grulla). The horse carries at least 1 copy of Extension (E?), does not have Agouti (aa), homozygous for Dun, & may or may not carry Creme. They do not actually carry the Grey gene.

Kvit Dun = bay or chestnut + dun + double creme. basically, a perlino or cremello dun. VERY rare in the Fjord world.


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