The Horse Forum

The Horse Forum (/)
-   Horse Showmanship (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-showmanship/)
-   -   Red ribbon for Showmanship & Halter? Yes, No? (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-showmanship/red-ribbon-showmanship-halter-yes-no-84079/)

Eclipse295 04-17-2011 01:12 AM

Red ribbon for Showmanship & Halter? Yes, No?
 
Would I put the red ribbon in a kicking horse's tail during showmanship and halter or only during ridden classes?

ShadowSpazzz 04-17-2011 12:41 PM

I personally recommend it. The other horses are supposed to keep their spacing anyway, but some people "forget". Better safe than sorry!!

faye 04-17-2011 01:57 PM

If you have a kicker then it should have a red ribbon in whenever it is around other horses.

Personaly If my horse was a kicker I would not be taking it into company untill I had sorted the problem. Horses that kick out when something goes up thier bum is not a kicker but anything else is and it is purely down to bad manners.

countrygirl91 05-18-2011 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faye (Post 1001043)
If you have a kicker then it should have a red ribbon in whenever it is around other horses.

Personaly If my horse was a kicker I would not be taking it into company untill I had sorted the problem. Horses that kick out when something goes up thier bum is not a kicker but anything else is and it is purely down to bad manners.

This may come off rude so I do apologize before hand(got to love the internet can't tell tones lol)
But considering my most cases these horses do not know who these other horses are I can't blame them for kicking out. Think of it, if someone you don't know touched your bum how happy would you be? Think of it that way. Also some horses just don't like other horses much but are talented athletes. Why should they stay at home. Me personally? I put red ribbons in my tails so people give them the space they need I don't have to worry bout strange horses coming up behing me as bad.
Again I do apologize if this comes off rude..just stating things. :)

faye 05-18-2011 09:52 PM

So your going to allow a horse to kick any other horse it doesnt know? nice one I hope you have rather serious 3rd party insurance! If it kicks it shouldnt be at a show! simple as! You do realise that most insurance wont cover you if your horse is known to kick and you put it into a situation where it kicks someone.

Kicking is a vice and thankfully one that can normaly be sorted. kicking out at other horses also shows that your horse is not concentrating on you fully and thus is not doing his best.

Decent manners and good socialisation of horses stops most kicking incidents. I personaly would rather teach my horses that others getting too close is not a bad thing rather then get a reputation for having a kicker and be constantly worrying about what it is going to kick next or worrying about what to do if the warm up gets crowded or if I have to pass anouther horse in the walkways at a show.

I've had one run in with a kicker, it actualy got too close to me in a very very crowded warm up ring (we are talking 15 ponies in 15m by 30m school) and not the other way round, it landed a kick on my ponys hock and lamed him for 6 weeks, The vets bills were enormous and since my pony missed several massive championship shows (with enormous entries and stabling costs) the final bill that I sent to the owner of the kicker was over 6,000 which at the time was $12,000. It included 3500 worth of vets bills, 600 worth of transport and stabling at a vet hospital, 2500 worth of show entries (including my costs of qualification) and stabling costs and a few other misc costs.

My 4yr old has only ever once thought about kicking out and I made him believe the world was ending because of it. He will now quite happily stand nose to tail with any horse in the show ring or anywhere else I take him.

This is a photo that an aquaintence (know her through anouther forum) of mine took at Royal windsor show a few days ago, (non of the horses are mine although I wish they were), It shows 5 beautiful, perfectly mannered show horses who are all at the top of thier game. All of them are riding fairly tight to each other and not a single one of them has any concerns about horses kicking, heck the lady on the 2nd one in has a coffee cup in her hand. They are at the top of thier game because they have such beautiful manners and are horses that have been taught not to get upset when someone else is too close.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h..._3409656_n.jpg

countrygirl91 05-18-2011 10:01 PM

Ok now think of horses as driving a car? Would you be pleased if someone is trying to ride your bumper? I think not. Same goes as with horses. Seen as many people are not aware of how to give strange horses room thats where issues arise. I've seen it all to many times. Riders going up others rear ends and the horse that is having a horse come up his rear is the one disqualified. Explain to me that then? Me and my horses respect others spaces because I know I would hate it if someone came up on us like that. I've been in crowded areana's but still manage to give myself space..Also be amazing what communicating in the warm ring can do. Again not trying to come off as rude, but kicking ia a natural instinct when a horse feels uncomfortable about something, so rather than make it more uncomfortable kinda let them tell you so you can work them through it. Every one has their own opinions and are entitled to such, but kickers have the right to show as well.. avoid them plain and simple. And riders with kickers should take extra care to ensure they don't get in a sticky area where they can. Just remember even "perfect manner" horses can be set off ..they are after all still wild :)

equus717 05-18-2011 10:08 PM

Most shows won't let you show a horse that kicks out. If they do they won't place your horse very high because of that. I am also of the thought that if your horse kicks out it needs to be resolved before you show it. It could get someone seriously hurt even a small child.

faye 05-18-2011 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countrygirl91 (Post 1039644)
Ok now think of horses as driving a car? Would you be pleased if someone is trying to ride your bumper?

No I wouldnt be pleased, but I actualy have manners so would ignore the twit untill he went away! horses can be trained to do the same.

Quote:

I've seen it all to many times. Riders going up others rear ends and the horse that is having a horse come up his rear is the one disqualified. Explain to me that then?
Unfortunatly this is the nasty side of competition coming out, I've seen it many many times, riders intimidating others or causeing them to become disqualified in order to take a place. You have to train your horse not to react to this sort of thing. Also I get the feeling you have never been to high level competition, in the warm ups there no one else gives a **** if you want them to do something or if them cantering circles is causing problems for otherr people, it is everyone for themselves and they are going to do what is nessecary to get the best out of thier horse even if it upsets yours.

Case in point is the Welsh and Arab inhand classes, over here a few years ago at one show the Welsh cobs were in one ring and the leadrein show ponies (so with riders under 8 years old, some as young as 4) were in the ring next door. The welsh lot started rattling bottles, banging the metal railings and flapping plastic bags to wind up the stallions, this upset the leadrein ponies massivly, the response from the welsh lot was tough. unfortunatly the practice of winding up Welshies and arabs still goes on.

Anouther point the warm up at one of my local venues is about 20m by 40m it is not unusual to have 20 ponies/horses in there of various sizes, and then a pony being lunged in the middle of it. There is no where else to warm up as the lorry park is concrete and all the schools are in use for various classes. So you get on with it, you teach your horse not to kick, You teach your horse different gears within the paces so that if you are trotting and someone cuts in infront of you then you just slow the pace a bit to give them more room and you dont have to change which gait you are in. My first show there this year there was 4 rings full of classes and just one warm up ring. Classes were generaly had about 15 horses in them, The lorry parks were so packed that they were parking the lorries on the road outside! You quite litteraly had 100's of horses fighting for a place to warm up so once you got into the warm up you took absolutly no prisoners!

Quote:

kicking ia a natural instinct when a horse feels uncomfortable about something, so rather than make it more uncomfortable kinda let them tell you so you can work them through it.
Yes kicking is a natural instinct, but so is running away from that plastic bag on the floor or the judges very scarey hat (that might just be hiding a dragon). Part of prepareing a horse for the show ring is preparing it for what it may encounter in that ring and teaching it to react accordingly. You've trained your horse to accept a preditor (you) sitting on its back, it honestly isnt that hard to teach them not to kick out!

Quote:

kickers have the right to show as well.. avoid them plain and simple.
sorry but having been on the recieveing end of a kicker I dont believe that they should be shown as they are a danger in the ring why should I have to change my warm up or comprimise my preformance on my well trained horse to go round a badly trained one.

Quote:

Just remember even "perfect manner" horses can be set off ..they are after all still wild :)
Yes perfectly mannered horses can be set off, it can happen with any horse I am fully aware of it. However with a perfectly mannered horse it is far far less likely to happen and will take a horse a longer time to get to that point. Therefore it is far safer all round.

Riding and showing is dangerous enough as it is without adding BADLY mannered horses to the mix.

countrygirl91 05-18-2011 10:35 PM

First off, where do you gather the right to say what kind of shows I've been to? Sorry to say that I'm actually witty on my warm ups(which is apperantly a habit some others should learn) Second off did I once say that kicking was acceptable?Nope fairly certain that I didn't,just that they happen. No horse has perfect manners..hate to tell you this. Even your top dressage horses have bad traits. Plus if you make the effort to take your welll trained horse around a badly trained one that earns you more credit in the judges eyes. I've been on the recieving end of a kick too, but seen as I respect other horses space (no matter how crowded) I was able to avoid serious injury to myself or my horse. Riding and showing is dangerous as is everything else in live (except knitting I've yet to hear of injury or death from that but I wouldn't be shocked). Plain and simple if you have a kicker,avoid others and but a ribbon on. Work on it at home. It's fairly easy to have them not do it,but remember sometimes you'll only discover they have this trait at a show,which is a place they are unfamiliar with,horses they dont know,people and smells,cars,and everything else that is unfamiliar to them.

HorseOfCourse 05-18-2011 10:48 PM

I don't think problem kickers should be shown, but yes, every horse has it's day. This, however, is no excuse if you're putting the lives of others in danger by knowingly showing a kicker.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0