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mustangrider 06-08-2011 01:33 PM

Cutting horse advise wanted
I am a newbie to this forum and am not sure if this is the right place for this thread, but I hope you can help.
This is a saga so I'll try to keep it short.
I purchased an investment QH mare (Smart Little Lena/Freckles Playboy), she is in foal by Mr. Dual Pep. I have NO experience with the western world (cutting/reining etc.) What was supposed to be an easy sell back to the ranch that I bought her from, has turned into my nightmare. She has now become my responsiblity. In order to make back my investment, I now have to move forward with this mare/foal. WTH do I do? The mare is in TX, I'm in CA (not a lot of trainers in my area...) I'm fairly proficient with ground work training, and starting a horse/foal, but where do I go after that? Would I be best served selling foal as yearling? Or keep foal and put into training to sell as 2 yr old? I don't think money (economy) is there right now to sell mare in foal and recoup close to what I paid for her. I don't have a lot of money to pay for training...are there trainers out there willing to train for a percentage of sale price? Any advise?

mls 06-08-2011 02:17 PM


Originally Posted by mustangrider (Post 1059896)
What was supposed to be an easy sell back to the ranch that I bought her from, has turned into my nightmare.

I do not know what that statement means?

smrobs 06-08-2011 02:20 PM

^^That's got me wondering as well. I am not clear on how the whole investment thing works. Could you explain that part of it in a bit more detail, please?

mustangrider 06-08-2011 03:04 PM

She was purchased under a lease/buy back by the ranch. I own her, but the ranch leased her back from me (under aqha contract) to breed her and sell the babies. It was a 4 year lease. At the end of the lease, the ranch (under contract again..) would buy her back from me at a guaranteed price (that was 15% above what I paid for her) Everything was in writing, and filed with aqha. The contract was good, covered everything including the mares mortality. The only thing that could affect the contract was the ranch going bankrupt. (And we are talking about a really large and well known breeding facility, the owner has been in the business for 40+ years) After 18 months...the ranch filed bankruptcy. :-{
The bankruptcy court denied the mare/lease contracts (there were 22 of us) so now we are cut loose with our mares and on our own. My mare is by Elans Playboy out of a Smart Little Lena daughter. Fortunately she is in foal, so at least I have the mare and foal to fall back on to try to recoup my investment. But I have NO experience in the cutting horse industry. I only know what I've learned from studying the bloodlines on the internet and different websites. I have spoken with one trainer out here in CA, but she's not close to I would have to board the horse and pay for training...can't afford it. So that leaves me where I stand right now with a couple different directions to go and not sure which is the smartest one to follow. Sell mare (in foal), ship mare back to CA and try to sell baby when she has it, or try to get baby in some kind of training and sell as yearling or 2 yr old, or the really crazy idea...train and show baby... yikes! A LOT of money for the last option...

mustangrider 06-08-2011 03:10 PM

...and one last thing...selling the mare (in foal) in todays market...will only get me a VERY SMALL fraction of what I paid for her. I really don't want to go that route.

Speed Racer 06-08-2011 03:21 PM

If you're hoping to get a return on your investment, I don't believe you're thinking this through. You'll be lucky to break even, much less make any money on the sale of this mare and foal, whether it be while she's pregnant or separately. The mare and any resulting foal would require continuous expenses until they're sold, so you expecting to actually make money on this is not logical.

You had a pretty sweet deal with the ranch, but the fact of the matter is that you're just another horse owner with an animal who is nothing more than a drain on your pocket book.

Don't be unrealistic and expect to get back what you paid in. The reality is that the horse market is glutted, the economy is still in the toilet, and the only source you had for making money on this deal has gone belly up. If you want to stop the drain on your finances, you need to suck it up and try to get the best deal you can, instead of hoping for some miracle buyer who will swoop in and give you what you paid for the mare.

I'm sorry you're in this position, but there were plenty of people who did the same thing as you before the Arabian horse market went bust; bought animals as investments, and lost their shirt when the market fell out from under them.

smrobs 06-08-2011 03:38 PM

Ah, thank you for elaborating on that for me. Around here, there is actually a very nice market for good stock with good cutting/reining lines, you just have to know where to advertise and where to look. What you might think about doing is searching around for someone close to where your mare is now that is in the business (trainer, breeder, etc). Visit with them about maybe finding a sale that specializes in selling horses bred like your mare and her foal and see if you can strike a deal where they will find a good place to sell the mare for a percentage of the profits. Like SR said, your chances of making a profit are virtually non-existent, probably won't break even either, but the mare would no longer be your responsibility and you would get much more than if you tried to sell her on some website like Craigslist or at a standard auction, especially after paying to have her transported to CA.

iridehorses 06-08-2011 03:42 PM

Sounds like a Babcock deal. The long and short of it is how much do you want to loose because there is no way you are going to come out ahead?

mustangrider 06-08-2011 03:44 PM

Please don't misunderstand...I am not looking for a "miracle buyer" or to make more than my investment.

What I don't want to do is throw away a chance to make back SOME of my investment. And cutting my losses and trying to sell her in this market is not an option that I want to pursue.

As far as the day to day expenses...I'm not as concerned with. If I bring her home to CA, I have the facilities to keep her (and foal) that will not bring much more added expense to what I already pay. Worse case scenerio I will sell the foal as a yearling (maybe at a futurity sale) and go from there.

But what I was hoping for...was advise on trainers...if anyone has ever had experience with working with trainers on a percentage basis...

mustangrider 06-08-2011 03:48 PM


Originally Posted by iridehorses (Post 1060015)
Sounds like a Babcock deal. The long and short of it is how much do you want to loose because there is no way you are going to come out ahead?

That's exactly what it is...and I'm trying to look at ALL my options so that I don't come out TOO FAR BEHIND...

"Coming out ahead" doesn't even enter into my thought process...

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